Joseph Scates

[chris]

Hi

I have a Joseph Scates concertina (Amboyna,Bone buttons Burgundy bellows) during an 'internal' examination i noticed a signature (Leo Offer) on one end. Whilst I am aware that at least 2 well known makers made for Scates I wonder if anyone has come across the above signature in a known maker thus helping to identify the actual maker of the box. Would appreciate any assistance

thanks

chris

[wes williams]

Chris,

I think its unlikely that "Leo Offer" would have been a maker, but perhaps either a repairer, dealer or previous owner. To try to identify the maker of your instrument you need to look at its features - how the action (the lever mechanism between button and pad) is built, how the reed pans are built, etc, etc. Scates was the first independent maker to set up and it could be possible that your instrument is one of his own make. Is there a label indicating London (earlier c.1844- c.1851) or Dublin (later)?

.. wes

[chris]

Chris,

I think its unlikely that "Leo Offer" would have been a maker, but perhaps either a repairer, dealer or previous owner. To try to identify the maker of your instrument you need to look at its features - how the action (the lever mechanism between button and pad) is built, how the reed pans are built, etc, etc. Scates was the first independent maker to set up and it could be possible that your instrument is one of his own make. Is there a label indicating London (earlier c.1844- c.1851) or Dublin (later)?

.. wes

[chris]

Chris,

I think its unlikely that "Leo Offer" would have been a maker, but perhaps either a repairer, dealer or previous owner. To try to identify the maker of your instrument you need to look at its features - how the action (the lever mechanism between button and pad) is built, how the reed pans are built, etc, etc. Scates was the first independent maker to set up and it could be possible that your instrument is one of his own make. Is there a label indicating London (earlier c.1844- c.1851) or Dublin (later)?

.. wes

Hi Wes

not quite sure how this reply set up works so there may be more duplicates. I accept your point re maker,repairer,previous owner and had considered this but wondered whether anyone knew of him and could therefore clarify this point. The concertina has a 28, Westmoreland Street Dublin label and has a serial no 226 the address would seem to suggest 1851 or maybe 1850 as a year of manufacture. it has been suggested that it was made by Wheatstone but this was along time ago and I don't know/remember on what basis this suggestion was made.

thanks for your interest

chris

[wes williams]

The concertina has a 28, Westmoreland Street Dublin label and has a serial no 226 the address would seem to suggest 1851 or maybe 1850 as a year of manufacture. it has been suggested that it was made by Wheatstone but this was along time ago and I don't know/remember on what basis this suggestion was made.

Chris,

Wheatstone 226 would have been a 32 key instrument. It seems like yours may have been an original Scates, since Wheatstone sold a batch of Scates instruments, with serials as high as 378, and including 236, on 23 Feb 1853 (ledger C1048 page 025). But as I said earlier, you would need to indentify its features before you could be sure of manufacturer.

[chris]

The concertina has a 28, Westmoreland Street Dublin label and has a serial no 226 the address would seem to suggest 1851 or maybe 1850 as a year of manufacture. it has been suggested that it was made by Wheatstone but this was along time ago and I don't know/remember on what basis this suggestion was made.

Chris,

Wheatstone 226 would have been a 32 key instrument. It seems like yours may have been an original Scates, since Wheatstone sold a batch of Scates instruments, with serials as high as 378, and including 236, on 23 Feb 1853 (ledger C1048 page 025). But as I said earlier, you would need to indentify its features before you could be sure of manufacturer.

Wes

thanks for the info. Can't check the mechanism just yet as the box is on its way to have a new set of bellows fitted but I have asked that when it is tuned that the mechanism is looked at with a view to identification of type. I guess what I hoped was that Leo Offer might be known as a worker/assembler for one of the concertina builders therefore giving a more positive manufacturer life couldn't be that simple tho.