Daniel Hersh Posted November 30, 2005 Posted November 30, 2005 These are both on right now. Listings aren't identical, but instruments look quite similar, and they are listed with the same serial numbers! http://cgi.ebay.com/WHEATSTONE-56-KEY-AEOL...itemZ7370962864 and http://cgi.ebay.com/WHEATSTONE-ENGLISH-56-...itemZ7371014717 Daniel
Cream-T Posted November 30, 2005 Posted November 30, 2005 Interesting. Both have the aura of a scam. The pictures are not identical, and I would make one serial nuber out as "27068". Best warn Ebay. I have filed a report.
JimLucas Posted November 30, 2005 Posted November 30, 2005 The pictures are not identical, and I would make one serial nuber out as "27068". While the photo resolution is poor, I agree that that digit looks more like a "6" than an "8". But the ledger says that 27068 is a hexagonal 56-key Duet, so that's no match. The description for 27088 does match. I was thinking that 27089 could also be a match for the blurred image, but once again it doesn't match the ledger entry. Since the photos are different, and if the instrument in Malcolm's workshop hasn't previously been listed on eBay, I wonder where the second seller could have gotten his pictures. Malcolm, can you tell us whether djangojessie got the instrument through an internet auction? And I guess we should contact the second seller, just to confirm or -- it seems unlikely -- disprove our suspicions.
Greg Jowaisas Posted November 30, 2005 Posted November 30, 2005 I have seen the pictures of this aeola before. Mr. Cullen (djangojessie, as far as I know) ran an abreviated ad on cnet.'s buy and sell board about 2 or 3 months ago. and sent a similar picture or two at my request. It is possible that someone who has gone over to "the dark side" might have received similar pictures with the green background. And now they are using them in a possible scam. It is a shame that ebay can't keep the scammers out. An otherwise enjoyable buying experience becomes more like a walk in a minefield. Kudos to the cnetters who detect these saboteurs and try and get ebay to disarm their boobytraps. Greg
Paul Read Posted November 30, 2005 Posted November 30, 2005 (edited) I've dealt with Djangojessie in the past. He got this instrument from someone in Australia. I think it went to Malcolm to get a price on restoring it? He is fine to deal with although it was on ebay before and didn't meet reserve. I'm pretty sure the other one is a scam. Whoops lots of typos! Edited December 9, 2005 by Paul Read
malcolm clapp Posted November 30, 2005 Posted November 30, 2005 I have spoken to the owner of the concertina, djangojessie, who is aware of the problem. This instrument was previously listed by him with the other set of photos, and it is this set of photos and description that the scammer has copied, presumably unaware that the owner has relisted at around the same time! The instrument was purchased by djangojessie privately in Australia and contains an Australian repairers signature from 1974 (not mine!). The number is definitely 27088. djangojessie is a well respected musician and instrument dealer in Sydney, mainly involved with guitars. I'm sure you will have no problems dealing with him if you bid on the correct auction. Unless I decline to give him the instrument back... MC
Daniel Hersh Posted November 30, 2005 Author Posted November 30, 2005 Thanks for the info, Malcolm. Is djangojessie planning on sharing this information with Ebay? The fraudulent listing is still up (with 3 bids do far) despite reports to Ebay from me and others. Djangojessie's info might be sufficient to get it taken down. Daniel I have spoken to the owner of the concertina, djangojessie, who is aware of the problem.This instrument was previously listed by him with the other set of photos, and it is this set of photos and description that the scammer has copied, presumably unaware that the owner has relisted at around the same time! The instrument was purchased by djangojessie privately in Australia and contains an Australian repairers signature from 1974 (not mine!). The number is definitely 27088. djangojessie is a well respected musician and instrument dealer in Sydney, mainly involved with guitars. I'm sure you will have no problems dealing with him if you bid on the correct auction. Unless I decline to give him the instrument back... MC
malcolm clapp Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 Thanks for the info, Malcolm. Is djangojessie planning on sharing this information with Ebay? The fraudulent listing is still up (with 3 bids do far) despite reports to Ebay from me and others. Djangojessie's info might be sufficient to get it taken down. Daniel Yes, he has reported it. MC
malcolm clapp Posted December 4, 2005 Posted December 4, 2005 (edited) You will never believe the eBay reply to the seller djangojessie, after he reported the scam listing: >We have reviewed your listing 7370962864 and the listing that you >reported, listing 7271014717. These listings do not appear to be >substantially similar, and, accordingly, do not violate eBay's image and >text theft policy. Consequently, the scam listing stands. To coin a phrase, "sheeeeeeeeshhhh!" Some one is going to get their fingers burned bigtime.... MC Edited December 4, 2005 by malcolm clapp
Cream-T Posted December 4, 2005 Posted December 4, 2005 This is bad. Very bad. But not unexpected, I suppose.
JimLucas Posted December 4, 2005 Posted December 4, 2005 You will never believe the eBay reply to the seller djangojessie, after he reported the scam listing:>We have reviewed your listing 7370962864 and the listing that you >reported, listing 7271014717. These listings do not appear to be >substantially similar, and, accordingly, do not violate eBay's image and >text theft policy. How much did djangojessie tell them? I would think that even the densest individual should understand that the matching serial number and the fact that the photos in the scam listing -- the originals of which are also djangojessie's property -- were taken from an earlier listing of the same instrument would constitute "substantially similar" for the instrument, even if not for the web page. Did djangojessie's complaint include the eBay number for the earlier listing that the photos and description were taken from? I hope he doesn't give up on this.
malcolm clapp Posted December 5, 2005 Posted December 5, 2005 I reported it too, on the basis of the concertina being described as in the US, but was/is in my workshop in beautiful downtown Woolgoolga, but have as yet received no response at all. I am expecting a reply to say that, in their opinion, it is a substantially different concertina However, will wait and see.... MC
Daniel Hersh Posted December 5, 2005 Author Posted December 5, 2005 I wonder if eBay didn't understand the nature of the complaint: they're discussing "image and text theft" (apparently a copyright-like intellectual property issue) rather than fraud. I also wonder how much time they take to investigate each of these--I suspect that it may be measured in seconds... Daniel You will never believe the eBay reply to the seller djangojessie, after he reported the scam listing:>We have reviewed your listing 7370962864 and the listing that you >reported, listing 7271014717. These listings do not appear to be >substantially similar, and, accordingly, do not violate eBay's image and >text theft policy. How much did djangojessie tell them? I would think that even the densest individual should understand that the matching serial number and the fact that the photos in the scam listing -- the originals of which are also djangojessie's property -- were taken from an earlier listing of the same instrument would constitute "substantially similar" for the instrument, even if not for the web page. Did djangojessie's complaint include the eBay number for the earlier listing that the photos and description were taken from? I hope he doesn't give up on this.
cnrobinson Posted December 5, 2005 Posted December 5, 2005 It is sad to note that the genuine auction has atracted one bid, the scam has atracted nine! I also note that the Jeffries anglo scam is still there (Scambusters thread). It is getting to the point where no-one can trust any of these auctions, except, of course, cocoa111's! Chris
greenferry Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 I wonder if eBay didn't understand the nature of the complaint: they're discussing "image and text theft" (apparently a copyright-like intellectual property issue) rather than fraud. I also wonder how much time they take to investigate each of these--I suspect that it may be measured in seconds... Daniel I've had similar dis-connects with Amazon.com. If you send them a couple more emails, the second or third person who looks at it will probably act on it.
malcolm clapp Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 And there it was, gone! Thank goodness for that! MC
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