Lars Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Hi, As a newbie I thought I'd post a half serious/half fun reply here. I like that 'honky' sound too but have noticed from recordings anyway that instruments that sound like that have a lot of variance in the sound quality across the whole range. I don't want to mention which artists but some of the notes especially in the higher range are almost painful to listen to or very low in volume. My guess would be to follow the others advice and go pick one out. I am anxiously awaiting an Edgley and a Kensington and equally excited about both but in the meantime I'm building up my muscles trying to get this Stagi to play fast with its stiff bellows As for an 'English' reeded or 'concertina' reeded instrument going for 8000 Euro, that's absolutely insane in my humble opinion. Maybe this might ruffle a few feathers but the only way to get the prices down are to not purchase them unfortunately. Yes I know, supply versus demand but there are competant makers making these traditional reeded instruments and not charging an arm and a leg, lets support these guys instead of paying ungodly sums of money for old instruments where half of them don't even work properly. Even some new traditional reeded instruments are outrageously priced and out of reach for most aspiring concertina players such as myself. I know a skilled craftsman should be compensated for his work but even my Doctor doesn't make $45 an hour (assuming it's 100 hours plus materials to build one? or am I off the mark here?) With all this in mind, I've taken the liberty of introducing a new concept in concertina design, the 'Honky Concertina' My apologies to the sites I lifted the pics from but it's all in fun and I'll remove the pic if it offends anyone. But now we can all have that 'honky' sound that we honkys crave but additionally you can not use it when you want to please your audience who tend to prefer the accordion reeded tone from what I've seen. You can reach over with your right hand, or if playing Morris you can just bang it on your forehead or if you have a nice beer belly, simply drape it over the bulb and cough when you need the 'honk' in your note In the spirit of goodwill, my design is free to anyone who wishes to use it I just love Photoshop! Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I know a skilled craftsman should be compensated for his work but even my Doctor doesn't make $45 an hour (assuming it's 100 hours plus materials to build one? or am I off the mark here?) 1) Plus materials... and overhead: .. rent or mortgage on the shop .. electricity & other utility costs .. cost of accountant and/or time spent maintaining accounts, filing taxes, etc. .. ditto for correspondence and other clerical/managerial necessities, possibly including shopping for "materials" .. under "materials", are you including equipment/tools? 2) I'm not sure about the time estimate, even for a standard model instrument, but for custom work I'll note that one maker who took the measurements of an unusual instrument of mine to make a copy (for someone who was unhappy that I wouldn't sell mine ) said that he figured it saved him 100 hours of design work alone. 3) Last I heard (some years ago, now) American plumbers were getting $60/hr or more. If your doctor is in private practice, I doubt very much that (s)he is getting less than $100/hr. Probably couldn't pay for office space, equipment, receptionist (have you ever known a doctor without a receptionist?), malpractice insurance, etc. with less. I'll bet David B. could give us a more informed estimate, though I wouldn't fault him if he preferred not to. So while I agree with you that the prices make top-quality instruments difficult for many individuals to afford, I don't think it's because the makers are overpaid. From seeing a couple of them work, I'd say it's just the opposite; they work too hard and get paid too little. Not everyone can afford -- or even find -- a best-quality Jeffries with a value in the €8000 range, but then neither can every aspiring violinist afford -- or find -- a Stradivari or Guarneri. Is this unfair? Does it or should it affect the price of new instruments? Fortunes have been spent trying to reproduce the Stradivarius sound, feel, and response, but the originals still claim prices well in excess of any contemporary instrument. The amazing thing is that this is not yet true of the best concertinas. The fact that Wheatstone lists (as of 1-1-2005) its best quality 48-button English at £5460 -- almost exactly €8000 at today's exchange rate -- is pure coincidence. €8000 isn't an unusual price for a top-quality new musical instrument of other sorts. As just one example, here's an excerpt from the web site of Seattle flutemaker Alex Eppler: "Our Standard Model, Wooden, Boehm-system flute: $13,885 USD, FOB Seattle." That's just under €12 thousand, for a "Standard" model. Special features cost extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Laban Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 (edited) As for an 'English' reeded or 'concertina' reeded instrument going for 8000 Euro, that's absolutely insane in my humble opinion. Maybe this might ruffle a few feathers but the only way to get the prices down are to not purchase them unfortunately. Yes I know, supply versus demand but there are competant makers making these traditional reeded instruments and not charging an arm and a leg, lets support these guys instead of paying ungodly sums of money for old instruments where half of them don't even work properly. Even some new traditional reeded instruments are outrageously priced and out of reach for most aspiring concertina players such as myself. I know a skilled craftsman should be compensated for his work but even my Doctor doesn't make $45 an hour (assuming it's 100 hours plus materials to build one? or am I off the mark here?) While I agree, to an extent, on the price-issue (for some old instruments) it must be said the concertina with the 8K price tag was a pristine top of the range pick of the crop Jeffries, not your everyday run of the mill it may or may not work old jobbie. As I indicated the same dealer had some very nice instruments at less than half that price, instruments that would do most people for a life time (still felt like handing over an arm or a leg but you support your children in their interests and all that) . I think your assumption of hours going into a concertina may be on the low side, depending on the way the maker goes at it. Edited November 30, 2005 by Peter Laban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Brook Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Hi Lars, You are just missing the live canary for the bird call! Not sure how you could get it to sound when it was required though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 You are just missing the live canary for the bird call!Not sure how you could get it to sound when it was required though. Train it! Birds are far more intelligent than the insulting expression "bird brain" would indicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_mchale Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 As for an 'English' reeded or 'concertina' reeded instrument going for 8000 Euro, that's absolutely insane in my humble opinion. Maybe this might ruffle a few feathers but the only way to get the prices down are to not purchase them unfortunately. Yes I know, supply versus demand but there are competant makers making these traditional reeded instruments and not charging an arm and a leg, lets support these guys instead of paying ungodly sums of money for old instruments where half of them don't even work properly. Even some new traditional reeded instruments are outrageously priced and out of reach for most aspiring concertina players such as myself. I know a skilled craftsman should be compensated for his work but even my Doctor doesn't make $45 an hour (assuming it's 100 hours plus materials to build one? or am I off the mark here?) Actually I expect that your Doctor in fact does make quite a bit more than $45 an hour for his work. $45 comes in at about $90K a year (before any expenses like maintaining an office is considered) and i am pretty sure that most doctors make more than that. The price of instruments is determined by a number of factors. The basic fact is that concertinas, unlike their accordion cousins, are still too small of a market for mass production to come into play. Probably the biggest difference in price between the Italian reeded $2000 instruments and the english Reeded $5000 instruments is the fact that the former can obtain mass produced Italian reeds relatively cheaply while makers of English Reeded instruments need to make each reed by hand. I imagine, should demand for concertinas rise to a high enough level, that it would be feesible to mass produce quality reeds in the same way the Italians and the Germans do, but that isn't the case right now. In any case, my suspicion is that Suttner and Dipper make a decent but probably not extravegant living off of the work they do (This btw is frequently the case with craftsmen who deal in niche products that can demand what some would think were rather high prices). The same is true (I am sure) of Edgly, Tedrow, Morse and the others who make Italian Reeded Concertinas. -- Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Hi Lars, You are just missing the live canary for the bird call! Not sure how you could get it to sound when it was required though. Well Peter, I'll work on the canary training bit but here is the prototype just for you! Glad you took the post as intended. I have an idea to design an $8000 Euro instrument and combine it with an industrial vacuum cleaner and a few other things. (Any Frank Zappa fans get this?) Please take it all in fun gentlemen, I don't mean to be insulting...just adding a little spice to the thread and for those who think the high prices are OK, let me be the first to applaud your good fortune. I'll behave now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Edgley Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 The "honky concertina sound" illustrated by Lars, is now being offered as an option. That is, if I can unscrew it from my bicycle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_mchale Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Can you retrofit it to earlier models of your Concertinas Frank? And if so can you mount mine reversed ... I it will be easier to honk of the bulb is on the outside . -- Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Can you retrofit it to earlier models of your Concertinas Frank? And if so can you mount mine reversed ... I it will be easier to honk of the bulb is on the outside . -- Bill Come on guys! What's that rubber thing on the horn used for? You've got lots of nice air pressure on the machine - add an extra button . Let's see some development here! /Henrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_mchale Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 I wonder if this is how some of the sound effect buttons that exist on some of the older Anglos got their start? -- Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lildogturpy Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Here is a good example of that honking sound, although I think it needs a lot of practice to make effective use of the dynamic range it can offer. Soundfile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted December 2, 2005 Share Posted December 2, 2005 Here is a good example of that honking sound, although I think it needs a lot of practice to make effective use of the dynamic range it can offer. Soundfile Wonderful, Magic! I want one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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