Deciding between Anglo and English concertinas

[Tiposx]

6 hours ago, Duncan Luddite said:

Some of the new ones, say, the EC's sold by McNeela Music, are missing some of the sharps and flats. Don't ask me why.

I imagine it is to keep the cost down for a beginner. There is also a sort of sales logic in that there are 30 buttons on both systems they sell……

[pinnman]

Duncan, Thank you. My apologies for the confusion.  The message remains the same, but the typo does not help.

[hjcjones]

8 hours ago, Duncan Luddite said:

Some of the new ones, say, the EC's sold by McNeela Music, are missing some of the sharps and flats. Don't ask me why.

Presumably to reduce the cost, and perhaps on the assumption that someone using it for folk music will only need a limited range. The Swedish player/maker Henrik Müller did something similar when modifying an EC to play Irish music more like an anglo, he removed the reeds he didn't need to save weight.

 

The cheaper entry point might enable some to learn the EC without spending too much, but if they stick with it they'll probably want to upgrade to a full-size instrument. However the OP has the opportunity to borrow instruments, so this may not be a consideration for them.

[wunks]

18 hours ago, David Colpitts said:

  I suspect the duet is much more like the English than like the Anglo, in all ways except the alternating left-right scales of the English.

 

Duets also feature an overlap zone of a few to several notes spanning the Left/Right transition.  Wherein each note is playable 4 different ways,  push or draw, left or right!  Very Handy indeed....😃

[wunks]

Double post. Sorry.

Edited March 31 by wunks
double post

[David Barnert]

15 minutes ago, wunks said:

Duets also feature an overlap zone of a few to several notes spanning the Left/Right transition.  Wherein each note is playable 4 different ways,  push or draw, left or right!  Very Handy indeed....😃

 

Yes, each of those notes is represented by four reeds. Tempting to think some of them could be eliminated, but I use them all.

[Ubizmo]

10 hours ago, Duncan Luddite said:

Some of the new ones, say, the EC's sold by McNeela Music, are missing some of the sharps and flats. Don't ask me why. 

Are actual pitches missing, or enharmonic notes? I've never played a McNeela, but I do own the 30-button Jack from Concertina Connection, and the 37-button Morse Albion. Both are fully chromatic, in the sense of no missing pitches in the full range. But the Morse has some redundancy in the form of enharmonic notes. Very handy, too.

[pinnman]

Mcneela Regondi does not have D# and G#. keys, but C and Ab are present, so all notes covered. For most music, G# would make more sense than Ab because of the scales.  I think A major more likely to be required than Eb major, especially for folk music, and the Regondi is advertised as a  folk concertina.

At the moment , I do not need the extra buttons and find the reduced number of buttons overall helpful. However, my name is on the two year waiting list for a Marcus.

The Sherwood Reynard has the same pattern of buttons, but a CC Jackie player may be able to advise on that model.

 

[Ubizmo]

On the original "deciding" question, I've noticed that, now that I have an EC and can play it somewhat, my thoughts about what to play on it have shifted. Originally, I planned to play Irish and English trad, and in fact I do play a good bit of that. But often, once I pick up the instrument, something happens and I find myself playing standards, pop music, and other things. 

Last night, I spent a solid hour browsing through a fake book, playing, or trying to play, anything that looked interesting. From "Moon River" to "Leaving on a Jet Plane" to "Can You Hear the People Sing."

I don't know where I'll land, or if I'll just remain a dabbler, but I do appreciate the versatility. 

[fred v]

I started with a 36 button EC playing Irish and fiddle tunes. It was perfect for that. My first upgrade was a 64 button Wheatstone which was a total waste of money. Do not need all those bird chirp notes. I then got a 48 button Wheatstone EC. That was good but still never ever played above the high C note. I was finally able to find a 36 button Wheatstone Salvation Army EC that is absolutely fabulous. It has special size reeds that give fantastic dynamic range and all the notes I need. I’ve been playing it for 30 years now.

[fred v]

I might add that my 36 button also has 5 fold bellows. I flinders this to be just fine as my playing style uses direction change very frequently for accents to the melody. Folks tell me I sound more like an Anglo than an EC when playing. I think of the bellows as being a fiddle bow not an air pump.

[4to5to6]

The Anglo is much easier to learn quickly as it is diatonic but limited chromatically.  The English system has a brilliant layout with the sharps/flats on the outside rows.  The duets are brilliant with melody on the right hand and accompaniment on the left if you can memorize the layouts.

 

That said, all styles can be played on all three systems well.  When I started about 12 or so years ago, the English was more popular, now the Anglo is.  Look at the current prices for a Jeffries!!! Supply and demand!  
 

I personally still prefer the English but it has its challenges.  Listen to Simon Thoumire play Scottish tunes on the English tenor treble or Danny Chapman play accompaniment along with the melody. Brilliant!

 

All three systems have their pluses and minuses.  They all can play any style of music well but certain systems play certain styles easier.

 

The Entertainer on English - typically played on a duet.

 

Simon Thoumire jigs - typically played on the Anglo.

I’ve yet to hear anyone today play like I imagine the old virtuoso masters Regondi, Case, Sedgwick, Blagrove, etc. based on their musical scores and tutors.  In the 1850s it was a prized instrument purchased as a must have by the elite in society which was a good thing and a bad thing at the same time. It was promoted by these virtuoso players.  A few of these pieces have been attempted now but usually quite mechanical versus musical.  Danny Chapman is one of my inspirational favorites as well as Simon.  Danny can read fluently and is musical.  Simon just has to think it and out comes the music.  I’m working at it but not sure if I will make it to the required level to play the master’s pieces as we only live so many years on this earth.  But I am having fun trying.  The concertina is an amazing instrument no matter what system you prefer with never a dull moment.

 

All the best!

.

Edited April 6 by 4to5to6

[RAc]

25 minutes ago, 4to5to6 said:

The Anglo is much easier to learn quickly as it is diatonic but limited chromatically.

I don't think that is universally true. I like to think I'm doing ok on a duet by now, but my brain just can't make heads or tails of bisonoric instruments, and behold, I tried. It depends on how you are wired, I guess.

 

Of course, bisonoric and diatonic are two very different concepts, and I guess unisonoric diatonic instruments would qualify as "easier" as unisonoric chromatic instruments. But there is no such beast, and an anglo is both bisonoric and diatonic, and what I find difficult there is the bisonoric part.

Edited April 6 by RAc

[4to5to6]

I can understand that.  Valid point.  Everyone is wired a bit different and certain systems therefore appeal to different people.

 

it would be a boring world if we were all the same!