Daniel Hersh Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Take a look at this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Anglo-concertina-48-ke...itemZ7361858347 . It's described as an Anglo, but the left-hand key layout as described doesn't look right to me. Is this some sort of Jeffries-type duet, perhaps? And the all-metal ends are very interesting too... Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jowaisas Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 (edited) Hi Daniel, There are concurrent postings on this topic and links to another Carr concertina discussion in the Buy and Sell section. http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2996 Greg PS added after some head scratching: I am assuming the seller has reversed the left hand button layout and placed the drone opposite from where it should be notated. If so, it looks like a Jeffries anglo variant layout to me. But please do not ask me what to do with the inside fourth row that is teaming with A#s!!! Edited October 30, 2005 by Greg Jowaisas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 PS added after some head scratching: I am assuming the seller has reversed the left hand button layout and placed the drone opposite from where it should be notated. That seems one possibility, but another might be that it was actually made that way for someone who felt that the hands should "mirror" each other, i.e., that going up the scale should progress from index to little finger in both hands. I can tell you that on duets I've found that such mirroring seems neither more nor less natural than the usual pattern of going up the scale from left to right as you look at each end separately. However, I suspect many people would have more trouble than I do in switching between the two relationships. If it really is as the seller has indicated, I wonder if that will make it more difficult to sell. I hate to think that somebody would buy it and then try to switch the locations of higher (smaller) and lower (larger) reed frames in the reed pan. I do find it funny that the thumb button is called a "drone", when it has different notes on push and pull. If so, it looks like a Jeffries anglo variant layout to me. But please do not ask me what to do with the inside fourth row that is teaming with A#s!!! Note that on none of those notes is the octave indicated. And I've actually seen a couple of anglos where two Bb's (same as A#) on the same button were an octave apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Take a look at this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Anglo-concertina-48-ke...itemZ7361858347 . It's described as an Anglo, but the left-hand key layout as described doesn't look right to me. Is this some sort of Jeffries-type duet, perhaps? And the all-metal ends are very interesting too... It sold: only 1 bid, 1900 pounds and change. I wonder if it was a C'netter who bought it. If so, we expect a detailed report on this interesting machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Davies Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 I am the purchaser of the RCarr anglo and will report back with photographs once the concertina is received by me.I have handled a number of concertinas labelled R Carr.They are usually very substantial and thus weighty.As well as suggestions that R Carr was a moonlighting Jeffries employee Crabb's may have made concertinas which bear that name.I will consult Geoff Crabb on that point.The Wayne collection also had a number of concertinas labelled R.Carr including a metal ended miniature anglo and a metal ended miniature duet.These are now in the Horniman Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Davies Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 I am the purchaser of the RCarr anglo and will report back with photographs once the concertina is received by me.I have handled a number of concertinas labelled R Carr.They are usually very substantial and thus weighty.As well as suggestions that R Carr was a moonlighting Jeffries employee Crabb's may have made concertinas which bear that name.I will consult Geoff Crabb on that point.The Wayne collection also had a number of concertinas labelled R.Carr including a metal ended miniature anglo and a metal ended miniature duet.These are now in the Horniman Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Davies Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 I am the purchaser of the RCarr anglo and will report back with photographs once the concertina is received by me.I have handled a number of concertinas labelled R Carr.They are usually very substantial and thus weighty.As well as suggestions that R Carr was a moonlighting Jeffries employee Crabb's may have made concertinas which bear that name.I will consult Geoff Crabb on that point.The Wayne collection also had a number of concertinas labelled R.Carr including a metal ended miniature anglo and a metal ended miniature duet.These are now in the Horniman Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream-T Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Davies Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Hi Daniel, There are concurrent postings on this topic and links to another Carr concertina discussion in the Buy and Sell section. http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2996 Greg PS added after some head scratching: I am assuming the seller has reversed the left hand button layout and placed the drone opposite from where it should be notated. If so, it looks like a Jeffries anglo variant layout to me. But please do not ask me what to do with the inside fourth row that is teaming with A#s!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike byrne Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Mark, Is there a subliminal message contained in your last three postings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Davies Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 I have tried on a number of occasions to post a report on the 48 key R Carr anglo I purchased recently on Ebay.Apologies for keeping you in suspense.This was due to my lack of technical skill! The instrument has been made by a very skilled craftsman and is of superior quality and construction to most Jeffries concertinas I have handled.As the photographs on Ebay indicated the nickel silver ends are finely fretted with nickel silver fretted sides and marked on both ends in the usual place "R Carr Maker".The eight fold bellows seem to have been replaced in more recent years,possibly by Crabb's.The handles are of half round steel construction as is often seen on Jeffries Bros Anglo's and Duets.It has standard end bolts but these pass through steel tubes braized to the steel ends and pass through a metal fitting screwed onto the action board.The ends rest on six pieces of dowel stuck onto each corner of the action baord.Every other similar ended concertina(ie with wrap around metal ends)I have seen has this feature.The ends are a standard width across the flats 6 1/4 inches.The action is very interesting.Because so many buttons have to be fitted in the maker has used a Lachenal type flat pillar action with flat sided arms on the top row of actions on each end.The rest of the action is the rivetted Jeffries type.The buttons are all metal.It has a standard bushing board screwed to the metals ends.The reeds have the brownish colouring that you see on Jeffries reeds but the tone,although bright,is not as bright as the better Jeffries anglos.The reed layout is fairly standard and like a similar sized Jeffries anglo, utilising all the limited space available.Despite the metal wrap around ends the instrument is not excessive in weight ie; 3lbs 7 ozs. The keyboard layout is as per that shown on the Ebay ad.Interesting is the A on both the push and pull on the left hand fourth button from the thumb and the C#/F in the place of the standard C drone.On the right hand the last button on the bottom row away from the thumb is a C# on the push which I am just getting used to playing with the little finger on my right hand.There is a C# on the pull on the top row nearest the thumb as is often standard. The instrument plays very well and has a fast action and bright tone.I have taken it out playing to two locals sessions.The button spacing is closer than most of my other concertinas.This only caused me some initial difficulty with the F# on the left hand, which I quickly resolved. I have attached a photograph of the action board on the right hand.If anyone would like a full set of photographs email me.The instrument came with an A4 sized booklet which has a keyboard diagram of all the major and minor chords in all the main keys.This seems to have been produced recently. In summary this is a verywell made very playable concertina.Was R Carr a employee or ex employee of Jeffries?Who knows!Shay Fogarty from Dublin,the well known player, has a 60 key concertina by R.Carr of similar construction but with purple bellows with gold filagree work on the sides of the bellows.It appears to be a unique duet type instrument.I have a full set of photographs of that concertina if anyone would like to see them.As I indicated the Wayne Collection in the Horniman Museum has a number of Carr concertinas including a metal ended miniature anglo and a similar ended miniature duet.From memory these again have wrap around metal ends.Crabbs and Jeffries made concertinas with wrap around metal ends.Scan Tester played a Crabb like this,now played by Will Duke,whilst I have seen a Dipper of the same construction. A descendent of R Carr has recently posted on concertina.net.If he/she could provide us with some information about the family we can perhaps go some way to solving the mystery about him. Your thoughts would be welcomed.I would be particularly interested to hear from other owners of Carr concertinas. Mark Davies Email:edeophone@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes williams Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 A descendent of R Carr has recently posted on concertina.net.If he/she could provide us with some information about the family we can perhaps go some way to solving the mystery about him. Mark, The descendent is as much in the dark as we are - basically we only know of Robert Carr through two census entries - in 1901 he is listed as a musical instrument maker, and in 1891 as a painter in oils/sculptor (7 Nelldale Road, Rotherhithe, London aged 30, so born c.1861). The descendent has relations in Canada; Edward Carr (1901 - 1999), son of Robert Carr, was put into a children's home at Shirley near Croyden, and eventually emigrated to Canada. He managed to trace 3 of his brothers and a sister. The the descendent who contacted us only found out about Carr fairly recently, although without any more details, and is just starting to try to find more information. Any further info would be very welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex West Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 In reply to Mark, I've got a Dipper with similar fretted sides. This is Dipper No 104 and is very much a special Alex West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike byrne Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Here is my Dipper No. 163 also with fretted sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I am intrigued to hear of the difference in tone in an instrument that has an all metal end. Are you conscious of it having an overall brighter tone compared to a similar instrument with wooden ends? And perhaps of more interest, how does the extra porting around the edges of the ends affect the sound of those notes in the G row which typically sound more muted because the heels of your hands are directly above their padholes? Are they louder..? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex West Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Chris It's really difficult to tell subjectively whether the side fretting makes any difference. My Dipper's a small G/D (5 5/8" across the flats) and the G row is an octave higher than a "normal" Jeffries G/D. This, plus the Dipper reeds means that the sound is extremely bright, piercing and loud. So much so that my wife and cat find it difficult to be in the same room when I play. I've never noticed the G row being muffled - again perhaps because the instrument is so bright anyway. On the other hand, in a very subjective test this morning, I couldn't really discern much muffling on my other boxes either - maybe that's my ears though. Maybe this topic is going somewhat off the thread? Perhaps a more technical person will open a new thread? Alex West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjcjones Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I used to have a 41-key Lachenal which had a pattern of small fretting in the (wooden) sides - much smaller than on the Dippers. I have always wondered whether this was purely decorative or had some practical function. I've never seen it on another instrument (apart from the aforementioned Dippers). Sadly I sold it years ago to pay for my 40-key Crabb Howard Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjcjones Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I used to have a 41-key Lachenal which had a pattern of small fretting in the (wooden) sides - much smaller than on the Dippers. I have always wondered whether this was purely decorative or had some practical function. I've never seen it on another instrument (apart from the aforementioned Dippers). Well I'll be .... no sooner had I posted this when I browsed: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2823 which has a photo of a very similar instrument. But I've still never seen another one "in the flesh". Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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