Edgley Heritage for Sale

[Parker135]

Edgley Heritage Concertina for sale.  C/G with Jeffries layout.  The Heritage is the top-of-the-line model with traditional steel reeds in tapered brass shoes.  Absolutely no issues.  Bellows are in perfect condition, including the bottom.  Comes in one of Frank’s original custom cases.  Current new price is $5990 USD, plus Pelican case, plus whatever tariffs are in place.  Located in the Dayton Ohio area; willing to drive a reasonable distance to meet.  Price $4500.  Link to video here.

Edited March 8 by Parker135
Corrected error in key identification to C/G

[pgroff]

Hi, Can you post a photo showing the traditional reeds? Looks like the action is not riveted and has two or three springs per lever, presumably to keep the levers from wiggling or dipping at the pivot point as can be a problem with non-riveted actions.  Finally, is it truly in the keys of C/D as you wrote (i.e. with one row in C and one row in D)?  That would be a very unusual layout for an anglo concertina and not consistent with the "Jeffries layout." Thanks! 

Edited March 8 by pgroff

[Parker135]

Haha!  It's a CG.  Senior moment, thinking about most of the Irish tunes we play are in either G or D.  

 

Standby for some more photos. 

Edited March 8 by Parker135

[Parker135]

More photos.....

[pgroff]

Thanks, very interesting construction, and a lot of work went into it. I'm not sure all of us would describe the reeds as traditional concertina reeds, although Wheatstone did use riveted reed tongues (of a different design) for part of the 19th century. From the construction of these reedtongues and riveted reed assemblies, I wonder how different these reeds sound from more typical, 2/plate, accordion reeds. The fact that each chamber has one press and one draw reed on different sides of the reedpan, rather than a typical accordion reedplate with 2 tongues ( press and draw) mounted on the same side of the reedpan, might enable the chambers to influence the tone and response to be closer to a typical traditional concertina sound. 

Edited March 8 by pgroff
clarity

[David Lay]

Deleted.

Edited March 10 by David Lay

[Eric Lerner]

I'm interested in buying the Edgley.  DM sent.

[PaulDa321]

11 hours ago, David Lay said:

Does the fastening make a difference in the sound of a concertina?  Some makers buy their "traditional" reeds from Harmonikas or perhaps an Italian manufacturer.  Of the current makers, which of them do?

I wonder if this Edgley uses the same Harmonikas reed assemblies that the ICC Vintage uses?  I played my Vintage side by side with a Wheatstone that I don’t know the year of or whether or not it had the rivet in the assembly. They sounded identical to my ear. They played differently though. Not enough for me to rate or describe well, given the limited time I had. 
 

I’ve heard that the two-spring action on this Edgley is very well done. This seems like a great instrument to me. 

[Parker135]

Good question for Frank, I guess.  I can confirm it's a great concertina, and it wouldn't take too much to convince me to keep it.  It has a wonderful sound, and the action is really fast and easy.  I convinced myself I would like to have a new concertina last fall and ordered an ICC Eiru Gold.  I got to pick out the wood, the case, choice of Jeffries C# locations, etc.  It is also an excellent concertina, designed more for a production operation in its manufacture compared to the obvious careful hand work in the Edgley.  Someone will probably ask for a comparison.....everything is more comfortable (for me) on the Edgley, and I think it's a faster instrument.  But then it's well broken-in by now and I've spent the last two years playing it almost daily.  I can hear very little difference in the tone, with the Edgley perhaps sounding slightly more rounded or mellow.  I expect the Eiru to continue to improve, and after having made the leap to own one, it makes sense to pass the Edgley on to someone else.  

[Matt Heumann]

15 hours ago, pgroff said:

 I wonder how different these reeds sound from more typical, 2/plate, accordion reeds. The fact that each chamber has one press and one draw reed on different sides of the reedpan, rather than a typical accordion reedplate with 2 tongues ( press and draw) mounted on the same side of the reedpan, might enable the chambers to influence the tone and response to be closer to a typical traditional concertina sound. 

I have played Frank's Heritage models with individual reeds in the shop along side my vintage Wheatstones & Lachenals and the tone is comparable. His New model with a 2-reed plate (screwed on) eliminates the time & expense of routing slots with 5 degree undercut and reeds changing tone due to expansion & contraction of the traditional wood slots, but with no compromise is tone quality. I agree with Parker135 that the tone is well-rounded and mellow.

[David Lay]

Deleted

 

 

 

Edited March 10 by David Lay

[Ken_Coles]

This is originally a for sale thread, so maybe the discussion of reed clamping deserves its own disucssion...I remember the late Dana Johnson, whose engineering judgment I respected a great deal, saying he could find no practical difference between clamped and riveted reeds in his own experiments. But, he said, he heard so much objection to the latter from "the market" that he made his instruments with clamped reed tongues.

 

Ken

[Parker135]

6 minutes ago, Ken_Coles said:

This is originally a for sale thread, so maybe the discussion of reed clamping deserves its own disucssion...I remember the late Dana Johnson, whose engineering judgment I respected a great deal, saying he could find no practical difference between clamped and riveted reeds in his own experiments. But, he said, he heard so much objection to the latter from "the market" that he made his instruments with clamped reed tongues.

 

Ken

Thanks, Ken.  I had no idea that my ad would generate so much discussion. I think it would have been better to just say Edgley Heritage concertina for sale and post a reference to Frank's site.  I recall Dana's comments about reeds and also the fact that he mounted his reed shoes differently...apparently a very brave thing to do!  I did learn that Wheatstone and a couple of others used riveted reeds for many years in 1800s.  

[David Lay]

Maybe it's my fault the discussion went on.  I was interpreting the first post regarding traditional reeds as a critique but did not see why it was needed.  I can see a small benefit to screw clamped reeds in the fact that one could change the tongue without machining any brass, but I would expect very few here would need to or be up for that task.

 

Edited March 10 by David Lay

[Doug Barr]

Hi David,  

 

Let me start off by saying I played on one of Frank's Hybrid models for years and loved it. It had the same "action" and was fast as hell and very well balanced.  I have even been up to his workshop!

 

Paul is very knowledgeable in traditional concertinas and I don't think his comments were any kind of critique. 

 

That being said I think traditions are hard to break and, for better of worst,  riveted action and clamped reeds seem to be the gold standard that other concertinas will be held against.

 

Knowing Franks work I am sure this is a great instrument.  Good luck with your sale.

 

Doug.

[pgroff]

1 hour ago, Doug Barr said:

Hi David,  

 

Let me start off by saying I played on one of Frank's Hybrid models for years and loved it. It had the same "action" and was fast as hell and very well balanced.  I have even been up to his workshop!

 

Paul is very knowledgeable in traditional concertinas and I don't think his comments were any kind of critique. 

 

That being said I think traditions are hard to break and, for better of worst,  riveted action and clamped reeds seem to be the gold standard that other concertinas will be held against.

 

Knowing Franks work I am sure this is a great instrument.  Good luck with your sale.

 

Doug.

Thanks very much Doug for your accurate and insightful comment.

 

I haven't been able to keep up with the many new models of concertina designed and built since  2003 when my family had to relocate to Florida for my wife's career. So I was honestly inquiring what the seller of this Edgley concertina implied when they wrote "traditional reeds." 

 

I think it's fair when someone is offering an instrument for sale for $4,500 to ask for clarification about its construction.

 

I knew from the seller's initial statement that the concertina was in the keys of "CD in a Jeffries layout" that their words alone might not answer my questions. 

 

The photos have answered my questions, thank you again Parker135.

 

I first saw reeds and reedpans constructed similarly to this instrument in some of the concertinas made by Marcus Music in Wales, under the "Thomas" label (not to be confused with Jeff Thomas who was not yet building) in the 1980s. The reedtongues and apertures and rivets of this Edgley seem very similar to those of typical accordion reedplates, although as I noted the fact that only one reed is riveted per plate and that the two plates per chamber are dovetailed into the reedpans on opposite sides of the reedpan might cause these reeds to sound differently than, for example, the accordion style reeds of a Morse Ceili, Tedrow, etc. 

 

However the comment by Matt Heumann throws some doubt on that last speculation because (if I understand him correctly)  he claims he can't hear a difference between this kind of Edgley and the kind of Edgley that has " a 2-reed plate (screwed on) "

 

I have satisfied my curiosity about the instrument for sale and I wish the seller and buyer all the best.

 

However, I stand behind my statement that "I'm not sure all of us would describe the reeds as traditional concertina reeds." That doesn't mean they are bad, or good, or sound differently. It's only a statement about the application of the term "traditional concertina reeds." I do know quite a few excellent players who seem to prefer playing on what *I* consider traditional concertina reeds, even though the instruments that have them are often (not always) much more expensive than instruments with modern-made riveted or crimped-on reedtongues. 

 

I personally love the sound of some accordions and of some vintage concertinas that were made with accordion-style reedtongues, riveted to plates mounted on accordion-style reedblocks. 

 

Choice of preferred concertina construction for some of us is influenced by factors that may not show up when the instrument is new. Will the action and the reedwork be easy to maintain? Will it remain a fast-playing instrument, fast enough (for example on near-instantaneously repeated same-button notes that many concertina players do not employ and so do not demand) to suit any professional? Can it be easily cleaned, tuned, response adjusted, for a century to come like the best traditionally-constructed instruments made in London in the golden era, or the Dippers (and a few other makers) made in a similar way?

 

One final note, since the discussion did seem to target me with arguments that "I can't hear a difference." To me this is a weak argument unless it is coming from generally acknowledged masters of the instrument. Similar arguments have been made by people who claim there is no sonic difference between solid wood and plywood, or between different species of solid wood, for guitar tops etc. If you cannot hear a difference that may mean you shouldn't pay more for the more expensive option, but it doesn't prove that there is no difference.  Especially when the maker of an instrument claims "my original design sounds just as good as the more expensive traditional design," I think some skepticism of possible bias is warranted.

 

Thanks all

 

PG

Edited March 10 by pgroff
adding a point!

[Parker135]

Enough.  I regret posting my concertina for sale here.  I also regret making a silly mistake in stating its key signatures in the original post which seems to have triggered a challenge.   

 

Quoting from Frank's information: "Our Edgley “Heritage” Concertinas are all made with traditional English-
style concertina reeds developed during the 19 th century. i.e. steel reeds in
individual brass reed shoes. These reeds are made to very strict tolerances
and respond quickly with good volume and mellow tone. Reeds are
dovetailed into a separate reedpan in the traditional manner. All
“Heritage” concertinas have traditional brass thumbscrews, fully bushed
buttons, stainless traditional vine pattern grills based on a vintage
Wheatstone Linota design, and the same quick button response that Edgley
concertinas are noted for."  

 

If someone wants to tell Frank he's been misleading us all these years, go ahead.  Should anyone still be interested in buying it, you're welcome to message me.  I'm happy to keep the concertina, and if I decide to sell it in the future I'll probably post it on Facebook.

[David Lay]

14 hours ago, Parker135 said:

Enough.  I regret posting my concertina for sale here.  I also regret making a silly mistake in stating its key signatures in the original post which seems to have triggered a challenge.   

 

Quoting from Frank's information: "Our Edgley “Heritage” Concertinas are all made with traditional English-
style concertina reeds developed during the 19 th century. i.e. steel reeds in
individual brass reed shoes. These reeds are made to very strict tolerances
and respond quickly with good volume and mellow tone. Reeds are
dovetailed into a separate reedpan in the traditional manner. All
“Heritage” concertinas have traditional brass thumbscrews, fully bushed
buttons, stainless traditional vine pattern grills based on a vintage
Wheatstone Linota design, and the same quick button response that Edgley
concertinas are noted for."  

 

If someone wants to tell Frank he's been misleading us all these years, go ahead.  Should anyone still be interested in buying it, you're welcome to message me.  I'm happy to keep the concertina, and if I decide to sell it in the future I'll probably post it on Facebook.

It is a very good concertina.  I have had one and still have an Edgley G/D hybrid which is my favorite to practice with.  Frank is still making concertinas with a wait list of a year as of last fall.  This is a good price, and with Frank admitting that he turned 80 last year, this is a good opportunity to acquire one.

Edited March 11 by David Lay