Cornish language singing with concertina

[Johanna]

Hey, I finally re-figured out how to make audio recordings that don't sound like I'm inside a tin can, so I might as well share them with the whole world, right?

 

https://soundcloud.com/johannam17/gwrello-glaw

 

I welcome suggestions on the arrangement.  It's a bit samey, and I know it could do with some variation of...something...between verses, choruses, and bridge, but I'm not sure what.

[Matt Heumann]

Nice, I think one thing that might make it more diverse would be to vary what notes you are playing in the chord or even go up or down the chord to create a more melodic sound. I try to never hold any group of chord notes very long but use split chords going up if the voice is going down or down if the voice is going up.

If you look at the sheet music in my "Queer Bungle Rye" video, there are very few chords, in fact the first 4 measures are all the same chord, but i really break 'em up to create a very melodic experience. I also try to create bridges that are melodic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUtLeBJ_c1w

 

[Johanna]

1 hour ago, Matt Heumann said:

Nice, I think one thing that might make it more diverse would be to vary what notes you are playing in the chord or even go up or down the chord to create a more melodic sound. I try to never hold any group of chord notes very long but use split chords going up if the voice is going down or down if the voice is going up.

If you look at the sheet music in my "Queer Bungle Rye" video, there are very few chords, in fact the first 4 measures are all the same chord, but i really break 'em up to create a very melodic experience. I also try to create bridges that are melodic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUtLeBJ_c1w

 

Thanks, Matt - that's a useful way to think about it.  I'm already at the bottom of the range on my treble, so the only way to go is up.  I'd dismissed higher voicings as sounding too shrill (on this song - I use them on other songs), but maybe I need to revisit that.  Will play around with it some more - I have a week and a half to get this into shape for an open mic.

[Matt Heumann]

Actually, my preference has always been to play above voice like Lou Killen did. But if I play below voice it has to be way below, so I use the baritone in those instances.

[David Barnert]

10 hours ago, Matt Heumann said:

Actually, my preference has always been to play above voice like Lou Killen did. But if I play below voice it has to be way below, so I use the baritone in those instances.

 

Yes, but bear in mind that your voice and Johanna’s are in quite different ranges.

[Jim Besser]

That is really nice! Kudos.

 

[John Wild]

I don't know the language, but it sounds good.

[Johanna]

1 hour ago, John Wild said:

I don't know the language

Neither does about 99.99996% of the world's population (including me).  But learning songs in languages that I don't speak is a fun way to challenge my brain.

[John Wild]

You might be intersted in the singing of the late Brenda Wooton.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Wootton

 

 

[Johanna]

That's a great song.  Tanya Brittain (who wrote all three of the Cornish-language songs that I know) also recorded it: 

 

[David Barnert]

Interesting... Both recordings put an unexpected major chord at the end of the verse, where nothing in the tune seems to call for one, as if not just the words and the tune were traditional, but the harmony as well (unless, of course, the more recent recording was influenced by the earlier one).

[Johanna]

Well, if we're going to get into details...

 

Although "Dy Sul Vyttin" is described as a "traditional folk song" in various places on the internet, this says that it was written in 1979.  I think the latter is far more likely to be true: The subject matter of the lyrics - gazing dreamily at your sleeping lover on a lazy Sunday morning - is not how people typically talked about each other in traditional folk songs.  (Especially not Cornish ones.  The Cornish language entered its decline around the time of the Protestant Reformation, so for a traditional Cornish-language folk song to have had any sticking power, it would have to have been medieval in origin, which Dy Sul Vyttin is pretty clearly not.)

 

All of which is to say: Wootton's version (recorded in 1982, according to the link above) basically is the original, and everyone else's arrangements are heavily influenced by hers.

[David Barnert]

Amazing what you can learn about a song if you know what the words mean. 

[Johanna]

More geeking out on what the words mean...

 

Near the end of the song there's a line that goes (phonetically) "och, nay nay."  You might guess that that means "Oh, no no," and according to the English translation, you'd be right.

 

But Cornish doesn't have words for "yes" and "no" - at least, not according to this, which is just about as much of the language as I've actually studied.  You answer yes/no questions by repeating the verb: "Are you a student?" "I am, I am a student."

 

By that standard, the line would have to go "Shall I wake thee?  Oh, I shan't, I shan't."  I guess that Richard Gendall, the songwriter, was either employing poetic license to get the line to scan or appealing to higher-level linguistic knowledge that I don't have.

 

And back to the song that I originally posted...

 

"Gwrello Glaw" means "Let It Rain."  It's a song about getting through the winter together, which is why it's been on my mind now, even though I learned it a few months ago.  If you've ever spent a winter in the southwest of Britain, you may know that it doesn't get especially cold, but it's very wet, very gloomy, and very dark.  Hence the particular weather metaphor.  And hence my third-favorite piece of Cornish-language trivia:

 

Cornish is a descendant of the Celtic language that was spoken alongside Latin in Roman Britain.  So while it's distinctively Celtic, it's also about 30% of the way to being a Romance language.  And you can see that in the names for the months of the year.  Half of them are cognates of the Latin/English/general Western European names (e.g., April and May are "mis Ebrel" and "mis Me"), and the other half are their own thing.  November is "mis Du," which translates as "the dark month."  December is "mis Kevardhu," whose meaning is not totally clear but which at least arguably translates as "the even more darker month."  It's a language after my seasonal-affective-disordered heart.

[Peter Smith]

Interesting to see the similarities with Welsh - not unexpected I guess as they have the same celtic language roots.

In Welsh 'Glaw' means rain, April & May as Mis Ebrill & Mis Mai; 'Du' means black in Welsh.

I'm glad to say that Welsh is still widely spoken (by some 500,000 people - though not all fluent - me included).

If you fancy another language to try, have a look at Welsh!

[Johanna]

Are there any cool Welsh-language songs you can recommend?

[Peter Smith]

Sorry to be so long in replying. 

I guess 'cool' depends on what you like.

 

There is a wide range of music in Welsh. Wales has been called 'the Land of Song' & with good reason.

Singers I like include Dafydd Iwan (Yma O Hyd - We're still here) & Dewi Pws. There is  also a lot of traditional Welsh songs, hymns & music, which I like. 

Maybe YouTube is a good place to start - or other Welsh speakers may be better placed to comment.

 

Google gave the following summary (though I don't know half these names!!):

Cool Welsh music includes a wide range of genres, from the 90s Cool Cymru movement with bands like Stereophonics and Catatonia, to modern indie artists like The Joy Formidable and Boy Azooga

Other examples span classic rock and pop (Tom Jones, Shirley Bassey) to Welsh-language post-punk (Datblygu) and folk (9Bach). 

Bands and artists

• Indie and Alternative: Super Furry Animals, The Joy Formidable, The Automatic, Boy Azooga
• Rock and Pop: Stereophonics, Manic Street Preachers, Catatonia, Feeder
• Classic and International Stars: Tom Jones, Shirley Bassey, Bonnie Tyler, Duffy
• Modern and Welsh-language: Cate Le Bon, 9Bach, Datblygu, Adwaith
• Folk: Meic Stevens, 9Bach 

Genres and movements

• Cool Cymru: A 90s movement influenced by Britpop and alternative rock, which launched bands like Stereophonics, Catatonia, and Manic Street Preachers.
• Welsh-language music: A vibrant scene that includes genres like post-punk (Datblygu) and modern folk (9Bach).
• Traditional Welsh music: Includes folk songs like "Ar Lan Y Mor" and "Myfanwy," and hymns like "Cwm Rhondda". 

[Roger Hare]

On 11/26/2025 at 8:15 PM, Johanna said:

Are there any cool Welsh-language songs you can recommend?

'The Ash Grove' springs to mind:

Quote

X:896
T:Ash Grove, The
%A lightly edited tune from Joe Offer's Tune Book.
T:Llwyn Onn
C:Trad, pre-1802
O:Wales
B:Singing Together, Autumn 1965, BBC Publications
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=120
K:Gmaj
|: D2 | "G" G2 B2 (dc) | "Em" B2 G2 G2 | "Am" A2 (cB) (AG) | "D7" F2 D2 
w:Down yon-der green_ val-ley where stream-lets_ me-*an-der,
w:Or at the bright_ noon-tide in sol-it-*ude_ wan-der
D2 | "G" G2 (BA) (GF) | "C" E2 C2 E2 | "G" D2 G2 F2 | "G" G4 😐
w:When twi-light_ is_ fad-ing I pen-sive-ly rove;
w: A-mid the_ dark_ shades of the lone-ly Ash Grove.
(Bc) | "G" d2 (Bc) (de) | "G" d2 c2 B2 | "Am" c2 (AB) (cd) | "D7" c2 B2 
w: 'Twas_ there while_ the_ black-bird was cheer-ful-*ly_ sing-ing
A2 | "G" B2 (GA) (Bc) | "Em" B2 A2 G2 | "D" F2 d2 "A7" ^c2 | "D7" d4 
w: I first met_ that_ dear one, The joy of my heart;
D2 | "G" G2 B2 (dc) | "Em" B2 G2 G2 | "Am" A2 (cB) (AG) | F2 D2 
w: A-round us for_ glad-ness the blue-bells_ were_ ring-ing;
D2 | "G" G2 (BA) (GF) | "C" E2 C2 E2 | "G" D2 G2 "D7" F2 | "G" G4 z2 |]
w:Ah! then lit-*tle_ thought I how soon we should part.

 

The lyrics are in English though! I think that your problem might not be finding suitable tunes, but finding the words in Welsh! Score and ABC attached.

 

'Sweet Jenny Jones' is another candidate? Welsh lyrics here. Score(s) attached.

 

When poked with a sharp stick, my 'master tune book' coughs up 182 tunes with some claim to being Welsh, but not one has any (Welsh) lyrics! If prompted, I will attach the ABC file for those tunes - you may be able to track down Welsh lyrics for at least some of them - many of them are clearly 'tunes' rather than 'songs'...

AshGrove.pdf

SweetJennyJones.pdf

AshGrove.abc

Edited December 1 by Roger Hare
Trying to get the ABC to display without the 'smiley'!!!