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Midi Concertina From Concertina Connection


jggunn

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Within the next year I definitely intend to purchase a midi concertina, but I have not seen anything on this thread that actually indicates that anyone has purchased the model offered by Concertina Connection and discussed experience with the instrument. I have been very impressed with the discussions emanating from Accordianmagic and the testimony of individuals such as John Nixon and Pauline deSnoo, and it would appear that one criteria of choice between the two instruments would be whether one possesses an instrument to be refurbished. I would, however, find it very useful to hear about any actual experience with the midi produced by the Concertina Connection or about any detailed comparative judgments that someone might offer.

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I also would be most interested, and if there is anyone in shouting distance of Wiltshire with one, I'd love to get together and compare it with my Whiteley/Lachenal, especially if it is an anglo. It would make a most illuminating report for my web site and for here.

 

Chris

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I bought midi-anglo concertina from concertina connection.

(see top of Midi-page, anboya type)

I bought this concertina for silent training.

 

It's very light weight. And, it's very usefull because of wireless. :)

Good button action. The appearance of concertina is good (90% I satisfied).

 

To play with half air-button is possibule (slightly push air button),but controll is difficult.

(To push air button is half, all midi sounds is stopped.)

 

I think bellow action is slightly heavy(, because airtight? or new bellow?).

Edited by wakasaobama
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I set a file under URL.

 

http://briefcase.yahoo.co.jp/bc/wakasaobam...rc=bc%26.view=l

 

Caution!

(I'm a beginner of concertina. Please be patient bad tune!) :P

I listened to your files in your "My documents/Tina"-folder.

Keep up the good work - Kyushu is far away from Ireland!

 

That you try to play with "air button half pushed" indicates that maybe

some sort of adjustable valve for "controlled leakage" would be useful?

 

/Henrik

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I think bellow action is slightly heavy(, because airtight? or new bellow?).

What I've realised with working with Roy on getting the feel of my anglo right is that most of the feel in a MIDI anglo is down to the way the control program interprets the readings from the bellows pressure sensor. From the sound of things the Geuns-Wakker is also pretty close to a realistic feel. Well done!

 

Chris

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Dear jggunn,

 

Just to let you know that you don't need to supply Accordion Magic with a concertina for refurbishment to acquire one of their midis. I'm just about to take delivery of a midi that is made from a concertina supplied by the company themselves, and this option was still cheaper than Concertina Connection.

 

I'll let you know what it's like when it arrives.

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I listened to your files in your "My documents/Tina"-folder.

Keep up the good work - Kyushu is far away from Ireland!

 

That you try to play with "air button half pushed" indicates that maybe

some sort of adjustable valve for "controlled leakage" would be useful?

 

/Henrik

 

Thank you Mr.Henrik

 

I studied “half-open air button” from “The Irish Concertina (Mr. Mick Bramich)".

I think this method is useful. But, It’s difficult to play by midi-concertina.

So, I want not to stop midi sound when push the air button.

 

wakasaobama

Edited by wakasaobama
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  • 2 months later...
Dear jggunn,

 

Just to let you know that you don't need to supply Accordion Magic with a concertina for refurbishment to acquire one of their midis. I'm just about to take delivery of a midi that is made from a concertina supplied by the company themselves, and this option was still cheaper than Concertina Connection.

 

I'll let you know what it's like when it arrives.

 

So, Spectecled Warbler, did you get your midi concertina from Roy? How do you like it? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

I'm also thinking about midi. What would be cool for me would be a midi anglo that sounded like a "real" concertina but would alow me to tranpose into various keys. Being a harmonic player, I have to bring 4 'tinas to some gigs to get around.

 

Also fun would be exploring various tunings and microtunings. Yes, a sampler would have to be part of the system. The variety of timbers in the band situation would be fun too.

 

Reports from other midi players would be most helpful to hear about.

 

Jody

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[i'm also thinking about midi. What would be cool for me would be a midi anglo that sounded like a "real" concertina but would alow me to tranpose into various keys. Being a harmonic player, I have to bring 4 'tinas to some gigs to get around.

Changing into different keys is the easy bit. My Whiteley/Lachenal can be a G/G, a G/D or a Bb/F at the touch of a button (well, two buttons) and each layout is as per my own specification. It can change octave as well, no trouble. The trickier bit is the concerina sound, since that doesn't form part of the repertoire of most (any?) synths. There has been some discussion elsewhere on the use of samplers, but I am afraid you would exchange carrying 4 concertinas for 1 concertina, plus sampler module, plus amplifier/speaker, plus cables and the need to connect it all up before you can play. The result is that I have concluded that MIDI anglos are at their best when you don't want to sound like a concertina. If you want to sound like a "real" concertina, the best way is still to play one.

 

Chris

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I'm curious, Chris. Have you investigated the "Concertina Sound Font" I described here and if so, can you describe the results?

I haven't, because to do so would require me to acquire even more gubbinses that I already have. I would have to connect to a PC and then connect the PC to my mixer, when it's a lot easier just to pick up my Jeffries and play one of the finest concertinas it has ever been my joy to handle. I've no doubt that if someone was to put the requisite work in the sound font could be made to work quite well.

 

The point I was making above is not that it would be impossible to get a MIDI concertina to sound like a conventional concertina, just that it seemed to me that Jody Kruskal's objective of carrying around fewer boxes would be frustrated. The MIDI concertina has a deal of baggage of its own.

 

Chris

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I'm getting a midi Melodeon (Streb Website) and the guy who is making them (Steve Rouse) has sampled various melodeons and you can just dial them up. Examples of a Streb can be found tune page (can't think where they got the idea for a tune page?). Steve was on a mission last time I saw him to sample a Jefferies to add to the available voices.

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... gubbinses...

 

The point I was making above is not that it would be impossible to get a MIDI concertina to sound like a conventional concertina, just that it seemed to me that Jody Kruskal's objective of carrying around fewer boxes would be frustrated. The MIDI concertina has a deal of baggage of its own.

 

Chris

 

"gubbinses" ?!?!? Are they like contrendlements?

 

Well, the natural world is rich and real and a Jefferies is my concertina of choice for a few reasons, but they all come down to dynamics. I love that buttery ease with which the notes speak. They jump from whisper soft to a shout with perfect control and very little effort. Or come straight out like bullets if I want. This gives the music life and zing, rhythm and bounce, heart and emotion, yet it is a single factor of bellows pressure that controls it. Aside from note choice, off or on and for how long... dynamics are it! Seems like a perfect fit for a digital system, midi or whatever.

 

There is a slight change in tone that goes with the dynamics. At the soft end, the tone has a warm hummy sound and at the loud end there is a kind of growl. Nothing that a synth or sampler couldn’t simulate (I think).

 

Of course I would love the functionality of midi... all those strings and horns and flutes and keys! But I would want a convincing concertina sound to be a part of the package.

 

How much stuff would I be willing to lug around? I already have a bunch of gear that I take to a contra dance gig. My G/D (plays 95% of the time) and C/G (for Dm, C, and high squeaky G tunes). I have my velcro mics and a guitar processor (AX30G Korg ToneWorks) that I plug into for all kinds of tonal control and effects. Oh yeah, my drum and sticks and the clip that lets me attach it to a mic stand. If I could leave the C instrument at home and use the midi with a little black box that was a sound module or sample player or whatever, that would be about the same amount of stuff. My venues always supply monitors so I wouldn’t have to worry about an amp. Or perhaps I would bring a little monitor of my own.

 

But, the thing is Chris, how does the thing feel? Does it respond to your touch dynamically? Does it feel like an Anglo, even though it does not sound like one yet?

 

Jody

Edited by Jody Kruskal
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My English midi concertina by Roy does feel the same and has the same result dynamically with the bellows when I use that option, as my acoustic concertina. Maybe the midi feels slightly more airtight but it is good and it works well. And indeed when I want concertina sounds I use my acoustic concertina.

Pauline

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But, the thing is Chris, how does the thing feel? Does it respond to your touch dynamically? Does it feel like an Anglo, even though it does not sound like one yet?

Good questions. There are a number of factors involved here. The concertina we used for the conversion was a Lachenal rosewood-ended jobby. Decent instruments of course but by no extension as good as a Jeffries. So there is one limitation. However, show me a person who will sacrifice a Jeffries for a MIDI conversion and I will show you a certifiable lunatic. To all intents and purposes there is no way back.

 

Getting a MIDI anglo to sound right is a bit more tricky than an English, because all the changes in direction mean a far more complex pressure profile for the anglo. However, the joy of working with Roy Whiteley is that he not only does the conversion, he programs the processor too, a very unusual combination of skills. The first version of the concertina didn't feel right at all, but Roy ands I worked hard at this. We got a loop going where I would describe how the concertina felt and how I thought the response needed to be modified and a few days later he would send me a couple of new processors to plug into the concertina PCB and try out. The way the MIDI anglo works is that pressing a button tells the processor what notes you want and a pressure sensor tells the processor the bellows pressure and direction. But the processor must be programmed to interpret the signals it is getting from the sensor, and so the feel of the concertina is largely down to the programming of the processor.

 

So the answer to your question is: yes, it really does feel like an anglo now. But if you are working with someone like Roy, if you don't like the feel and want it changed, then if you can express what you want Roy can almost certainly program it for you. I do not know whether Concertina Connection can support this level of customisation yet; I suspect not, since the programming was outsourced to a Dutch software house. For me, there is one last roll of the dice left in getting the feel exactly right, though I've been rather tardy in getting round to it. If you are using a patch with a sharp attack, such as a piano, and you change note by changing bellows direction without lifting your finger (bad habit, I know, but who among us doesn't do it occasionally ...) the note can strike a little soon. I will talk to Roy about this soon and I am certain he will sort it for me, but a measure of the urgency with which I regard it is that I have had The Beast for about 6 months now and I haven't got round to it even though I play it a lot. And make no mistake, it's great fun to play. It really expands your sonic horizons.

 

I should have thought, in a dance band, it would be a gas to occasionally radically vary the sound you make, and sound like a Hammond organ, say, or a string quartet. If you go the MIDI route I would suggest you still took your G/D, but you could probably leave the C/G at home. I understand that Roy can fit a General MIDI module internally to the concertina. That could never sound like a concertina, since the sound isn't in the General MIDI patch set but it would keep the number of boxes to carry around to a minimum.

 

Chris

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So the answer to your question is: yes, it really does feel like an anglo now.

As we (at the Arran Concertina Event) could play with Chris' Midi, I can fully agree with Chris. It feels very good, and to hear a trumpet quartet playing, while pushing and pulling an Anglo is smashing :o

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