Concertina Comparison

[David Lay]

 

Here are quick samples of five concertinas.  In sequence:  1. An East German made very modest concertina CG, 2. A Morse ESB Baritone CG, 3. An Edgley Professional Model GD, 4. An Eiru Silver CG, 5. A Suttner CG.  1, 2, & 3 have accordion type reeds.  4 & 5 have concertina reeds.  

[Takayuki YAGI]

Thank you for posting. I am surprised that numbers 4 and 5 sound so similar.

[David Lay]

30 minutes ago, Takayuki YAGI said:

Thank you for posting. I am surprised that numbers 4 and 5 sound so similar.

I hear differences when I play that the recording did not pick up.

[PaulDa321]

How would you characterize the tonal differences of the last two?  How were they different in feel?

[David Lay]

10 hours ago, PaulDa321 said:

How would you characterize the tonal differences of the last two?  How were they different in feel?

Using words to describe sounds can be like talking about art.... not really communicative.  Still, I can say that I like the sound of the Suttner a bit more, but the difference I hear is not great.  Perhaps more "mellow".  Note that I wear hearing aids which do not make my hearing perfect, and make some tones distort.  I have made another sound file, but find the recording to not reveal the distinction I hear between the two.  I do have some work to do on the Eiru as I am getting some valve slap on the larger reed valves, but I do not hear that in this recording.  I am only using a portable Zoom recorder, so that may be limiting its refinement.  The first is of the Eiru Silver and the second of the Suttner.

Edited August 15 by David Lay

[fred v]

I can't hear any difference except where you played a different scale. I have a high frequency hearing loss so I don't hear the higher harmonics. I can hear a distinct difference in my own two Wheatstone EC's.

[David Lay]

2 hours ago, fred v said:

I can't hear any difference except where you played a different scale. I have a high frequency hearing loss so I don't hear the higher harmonics. I can hear a distinct difference in my own two Wheatstone EC's.

I checked.  I got all the scales the same, so what you hear are instrument differences.  The East German (German Democratic Republic badged) instrument is very much out of tune, however.  It is also resistant to playing.

[PaulDa321]

On 8/15/2025 at 7:10 AM, David Lay said:

Using words to describe sounds can be like talking about art.... not really communicative.  Still, I can say that I like the sound of the Suttner a bit more, but the difference I hear is not great.  Perhaps more "mellow".  Note that I wear hearing aids which do not make my hearing perfect, and make some tones distort.  I have made another sound file, but find the recording to not reveal the distinction I hear between the two.  I do have some work to do on the Eiru as I am getting some valve slap on the larger reed valves, but I do not hear that in this recording.  I am only using a portable Zoom recorder, so that may be limiting its refinement.  The first is of the Eiru Silver and the second of the Suttner.

 

I do think there’s a little more snap to the orientation on the Suttner, which could be your playing or the action (or both I suppose). 
 

I’m really curious about the difference on how those two feel to play. A year or so ago I played a Suttner very briefly against my old Clare and, while the Suttner was better, it wasn’t as stark of a jump as I thought it would be. Now that I have the Vintage, I’m wondering how they would feel back to back. I think the Eiru and Vintage have a very distinctive soft feel to their action, but it could be seen as sloppier than it should be from a different perspective. For now, I really like it. 

I’ve got another question, if you’d entertain it. I’ve been wondering if the Eiru’s keys are further from the hand rest than the Vintage. I’ll post a picture of the Vintage for comparison. Thanks!

[David Lay]

1 hour ago, PaulDa321 said:

I do think there’s a little more snap to the orientation on the Suttner, which could be your playing or the action (or both I suppose). 
 

I’m really curious about the difference on how those two feel to play. A year or so ago I played a Suttner very briefly against my old Clare and, while the Suttner was better, it wasn’t as stark of a jump as I thought it would be. Now that I have the Vintage, I’m wondering how they would feel back to back. I think the Eiru and Vintage have a very distinctive soft feel to their action, but it could be seen as sloppier than it should be from a different perspective. For now, I really like it. 

I’ve got another question, if you’d entertain it. I’ve been wondering if the Eiru’s keys are further from the hand rest than the Vintage. I’ll post a picture of the Vintage for comparison. Thanks!

It seems to be the case.  Note that I made a taller (1"/26mm) hand rest for mine.

Edited August 16 by David Lay

[PaulDa321]

27 minutes ago, David Lay said:

It seems to be the case.  Note that I made a taller (1"/26mm) hand rest for mine.

Thanks for doing that—that’s a whole cm difference to the inside row. I’d love to have that extra space. How did you make your hand rest taller?  It looks like you adhered something to the top perhaps?

[David Lay]

11 minutes ago, PaulDa321 said:

Thanks for doing that—that’s a whole cm difference to the inside row. I’d love to have that extra space. How did you make your hand rest taller?  It looks like you adhered something to the top perhaps?

I have a shop, some padauk and a small piece of ebony and so made new ones with ebony tops.  I still have the originals.

Edited August 16 by David Lay

[David Lay]

This is an Edgley Heritage model made in 2017.  Note that some valves have been replaced recently.

[David Lay]

This is an ICC Eiru Silver made this year.  Note that some valves have been replaced and a taller hand rest installed.

[David Lay]

This is a Morse ESB Baritone Anglo.  Note that the handrest and strap have been replaced.  #16 photo shows the boxes created in the action board to provide clearance for the largest reeds.  Construction of the Ceili was similar to the ESB.

[David Lay]

These are of Kensington concertinas.  I lost many of my own photos and hope no one whose photos I have borrowed minds having them included here.

[Tiposx]

These photos are fascinating, thank you for posting them. I didn't know that there were so many different styles of action used by makers of modern instruments.

 In particular I am intrigued of the Edgely model using two springs on each lever. This presumably uses the stronger locating spring close to the pivot, with a second weaker spring to set the button pressure. Also fascinating is the use of an open hook pivot.

The Kensington setup is also unusual.  The pivot appears to be split, with the spring running through it somehow. Could I ask for a closer side view of the assembly please?

Also of note is the use of buttons that don't have locating pegs. I didn't know that this method was so popular. Buttons are much easier to machine with a constant diameter, but can be harder to fit into their locating holes. The open hook pivot addresses this very neatly.

I am a nerd for this sort of detail!

[David Lay]

41 minutes ago, Tiposx said:

These photos are fascinating, thank you for posting them. I didn't know that there were so many different styles of action used by makers of modern instruments.

 In particular I am intrigued of the Edgely model using two springs on each lever. This presumably uses the stronger locating spring close to the pivot, with a second weaker spring to set the button pressure. Also fascinating is the use of an open hook pivot.

The Kensington setup is also unusual.  The pivot appears to be split, with the spring running through it somehow. Could I ask for a closer side view of the assembly please?

Also of note is the use of buttons that don't have locating pegs. I didn't know that this method was so popular. Buttons are much easier to machine with a constant diameter, but can be harder to fit into their locating holes. The open hook pivot addresses this very neatly.

I am a nerd for this sort of detail!

Regrets that I no longer have the Kensington or the better photos I took.  Dana's web page is now gone, but I can share what he had there regarding his design.  (Hoping, again, that sharing another's material is OK.)

[Tiposx]

Even more intetesting. It looks as if Dana did use buttons with (probably integral) pegs. The pegs sit in a machined bush rather than the timber of the action board. Really well designed and engineered throughout.