Horizontal v Vertical

[Alan Day]

I wonder what made Wheatstone and early manufacturers choose a Vertical Layout for the English and not Horizontal like the Anglo and Duet Systems.

If it was Horizontal then all the fingers would be usable whereas at the moment two(On each Hand) are not usable, with severe strain on both. Some players use just the thumbs ,but what an awkward way to play.  There is nothing wrong with the playing system just the layout. I can accept the Historical argument ,but is it possible they got it wrong ?

As usual I welcome discussion on this and am willing to be shot down in flames over the subject. 

Al

[wunks]

Playing the Jeffries duet, which shares the horizontal layout with the Anglo, feels way more natural ( to me ).  I've tried EC and found it tortuous except for a nice Wheatstone treble with the ends rotated a notch clockwise relative to the straps.  Comfortable and smoother to play.  I play with all fingers and thumbs.

[Alex West]

Alan

 

If you look at the way Simon Thoumire plays the English, he hardly uses the pinky rest at all and twists the thumbstrap round so that (at least on the Right hand keyboard), he's playing it practically horizontally

 

Alex West

[Tiposx]

One gets used to it 🙂

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I imagine Wheatstone's scientific mind had a reason for the layout of English concertinas.

I also find Anglo Layout to me more logical as seeing( visualising) the 5 buttons on a row being more like fingers on each hand ... But both systems have their good points, and quirks I know.

[Alan Day]

For a short while I played an English for song accompaniment and it was agony, but not as much as playing a miniature Anglo on French TV years ago. It is always worth looking at improving designs or even checking if they right in the first place. It is how we get progress.

Al

[John Wild]

I will only say that I find it a quirky use of language. To mind, and eye, it is the anglo which is arranged vertically, as the 5 buttons on a row are positioned vertically top to bottom. That is just semantics, and has no effect on the way you play.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I was considering it viewed as three horizontal rows, of 5 buttons per row ) as my own way of seeing the layout, as playing is concerned. 

It is a way of simplifying the many buttons as they may seem

 

 

[Alan Day]

That is how I see it and if the English was horizontal it would be four rows of buttons. 

I wonder how Henrik Muller modified English was laid out.

Al

[aeolina]

Henrik Müller, Paul Connolly and myself will be demonstrating and discussing our technical innovations of the English system concertina for the performance of Scottish and Irish music at the forthcoming squeezebox convention in Aberdeen, Scotland (See Announcement forum). We will be addressing issues mentioned here.

 

Stuart Eydmann

[John Wild]

5 hours ago, Alan Day said:

That is how I see it and if the English was horizontal it would be four rows of buttons. 

I wonder how Henrik Muller modified English was laid out.

Al

As I see it, that is 4 rows of horizontal buttons, the inner rows being the naturals and the outer 2 rows the semitones.

This is just about what you call them, not how you play.🙂

[David Barnert]

Is the part of the concertina where the hands come from considered the bottom of the instrument or the side? Reasonable people will disagree. If the bottom, then the rows on an English are vertical and the rows on an Anglo are horizontal. If the side (the natural playing position), then the rows on an English are horizontal and the rows on an Anglo are vertical.

 

I must admit that I generally refer to the rows on my Hayden as being horizontal, even though when I am playing it (and when it is stored in its case or sitting on a table) the rows are oriented vertically.

[Roger Hare]

Anglo only...

 

I've always found this horizontal/vertical or top/middle/bottom row stuff very confusing. Privately, I refer to the rows (for a G/D Anglo, say) simply as:

 

Accidentals row

Home row (by default, this is the G-row on a G/D)

D row

 

(Obviously) this changes when I move to a Bb/F (where the Home row is Bb, and I now have an F row), but I actually find that less confusing than the top/middle/bottom designation. It's unambiguous, if nothing else...

Edited August 15 by Roger Hare

[Alan Day]

I am happy with the layout of the Anglo apart from the drone button .Keep major key drone on the pull but why have one on the push you already have that note.

So my discussion is that English could be horizontal as per the Anglo and Duet.

Thanks for an interesting discussion.

al

[aeolina]

Thinking this over, I gave up visualising the layout of my English as a series of rows a long time ago and now imagine it more as an array of notes. This is compounded by the fact that most of the music I play (Scottish pipe and fiddle tunes, Irish tunes) employs many stock figures, motifs, phrases and ornaments. More recently, in the Caledonian layout, my reorganisation of the two "accidental rows" by the substitution of superfluous and little used notes with handy duplicates of notes on the opposite sides has worked against the logic of the original concept.

Coincidentally, I have been reminded by a forum member that Is promised to share the Caledonian layout some months ago. I will do that as soon as possible.

[hjcjones]

In reply to Alan, at the risk of stating the obvious the point of the drone button is to play a drone. This can be very effective, although it should be used sparingly in my opinion. It is very easy to simply hold down this button while playing normally. It would still be possible if you had the C note on the pull and alternated with the C push, but much more difficult.

 

However if you don't like the drone effect then this button can be usefully repurposed for other notes.

[fred v]

On 8/14/2025 at 4:44 PM, aeolina said:

Henrik Müller, Paul Connolly and myself will be demonstrating and discussing our technical innovations of the English system concertina for the performance of Scottish and Irish music at the forthcoming squeezebox convention in Aberdeen, Scotland (See Announcement forum). We will be addressing issues mentioned here.

 

Stuart Eydmann

Would you be able to post a synopsis of the discussion here? We would be very interested in the subject.

[aeolina]

I anticipate the event will be recorded for academic/archival purposes and both Henrik and myself will prepare written notes in advance that I hope we can share.

 

Stuart