Playing in a different key

[Jane_in_UK]

Hello all.

I'm about to try your patience with a question that  is probably elementary in the extreme, so apologies in advance. I'm a total novice...

 

How do players who have learned tunes in a particular key - and whose fingers play the right buttons without much conscious thought because they are so familiar with the tune - quickly switch to playing a whole new configuration of buttons if someone proposes playing the tune in a different key? 

 

When this happens to my husband (a guitarist/banjoist), he simply uses a capo so he doesn't have to think about different notes/chord formations. My friend - a harmonica player - has a set of 12 harmonicas in each of the 12 keys. But how do concertina players manage a seamless transition from one key to another for a tune they've learned only in one key?

 

I suppose some folks are experienced sight readers and can adapt unthinkingly...but what if one doesn't read music? Or what if the tune is a well-known one and no one has brought along the sheet music?

 

Is key-switching a skill that develops naturally with practice and familiarity with the instrument? Can I do anything  proactively to learn the skill, or train myself in it?  Is it a skill I need to be trying to learn right from the very outset?

 

I've only been playing concertina for 2 weeks and as I have no prior experience of playing a musical instrument I have a steep learning curve ahead of me. Even the rudiments of music theory were a total mystery to me two weeks ago, so I've had to give myself a quick and superficial education in staves, keys, harmony, dissonance, circles of fifths etc. My brain is about to explode, yet I've barely scratched the surface. And of course it's pipedream stuff for me to be thinking of participating in a pub session - that goal is way in the future so this changing-key issue isn't something I need to worry about at the moment.

 

But should I be laying the groundwork now, right at the beginning? If so, how should I go about it? Is this the reason some tutors emphasise learning by ear rather than by reading notation or tablature?

 

Your advice and insights would be greatly appreciated! 

 

[RAc]

Welcome to the forum, Jane!

 

What kind (layout) of concertina do you play? Anglo, Duet or English?

 

[gcoover]

Jane, 

 

Welcome to the wonderfully fun and confusing world of the concertina in all its many forms! Music theory is fine for some to learn, but not necessary - your ear will teach much more as you progress. 

 

If you play the English, changing keys is not that difficult a transition, but for the Anglo you'll probably need to have others standing by in different key combinations. Hayden Duet players probably have it the easiest, although their instruments are among the hardest to find. Or just do what I do - when the key changes, it's time to go get a beer.

 

If legendary musician Nigel Tufnel can invent a capo that goes on an amplifier (see the 1992 "Return of Spinal Tap"), surely someone can do something similar for the concertina!

 

Gary

Edited August 6 by gcoover

[Jane_in_UK]

Thank you both for the warm welcome.

 

Mine is a 32 key C/G Anglo - a beautiful rosewood Lachenal that I treated myself to from Barleycorn on my retirement as a huge leap of faith in myself, my staying power and my commitment to learn this beautiful instrument. I had originally thought of taking a more modest hop of faith by investing in a Wren, but I did my homework on here first and decided on a do-or-die approach! 

 

I have leisure time, enthusiasm and willingness on my side. Ranged against me are the forces of ignorance and ineptitude and my 60-year-old brain and fingers. I want to put my assets to good use, while not forgetting to enjoy myself and have fun. 

[Jane_in_UK]

16 minutes ago, gcoover said:

Or just do what I do - when the key changes, it's time to go get a beer.

 

I reckon I'll be drinking a lot of beer! Perhaps that's another skill I need to start practising...

[Tiposx]

I don't even attempt to change from the key that I learn it in. If that happened in a session then I would rest.

I would rather learn a complete new tune than attempt to learn a known tune in a different key. It would spoil my original learned tune.

I am not a talented player though.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Take learning a new skill at your own pace.. gradually, as suits you personally; some people learn quickly, whilst others need more advice to develop new skills.

There's a lot of technical stuff in music theory that can frighten novices from progressing, and although it is interesting to go really deeply into all the theory ..it is not essential to know it all..just enough to get by, and play tunes. Where the notes are, some common key signatures,  ( if you want to read from sheet music).

Otherwise, advice from experienced musicians will help, so learn at your own pace, and do not be discouraged if progress seems slow, to begin with, as every little thing you suddenly understand from your new skills, should spur you on to greater things.🌝  

 

 

[David Colpitts]

Welcome, Jane.  It sounds like you have plenty of motivation and time, which are crucial to efforts like learning a new instrument.  I started at 60 myself, and have two responses to your original question:

1,  As gcoover said, Hayden players have it easiest, I think, because key changes very often simply require moving over a spot (or up a spot) on the keyboard and play with the same fingering as the original key.  I added one to my "fleet" after about 9 years of Anglo-only playing, and it has made all the difference for me in key-change flexibility.  But, back to Anglos, for:

2.  I started with an advanced case of "harmonica brain" pattern, which is due to virtually identical patters for "do re mi" on both Anglo and diatonic harmonica, which I had played for years.  Therefore, I played only in C or G on my C/G Anglo.  Swapping between those to was instant; just switch to the "other" row.  BUT.....Most session tunes for me were G, D .  So, I bought a Morse in G and D!  Rather than "get a beer" when the key changes, I can "get another instrument." I have since gotten a D/A, so if I take it along, I have G, D, A with two Anglos.  Then, either the Hayden or a beer if I can't play that key.

 

Most serious Anglo players play "cross-row" which allows (eventually) nearly any keys, but at what to me was a huge cost in learning curve.  I bet you'll be a quick study.  Have a blast!

[David Lay]

I play an anglo C/G and learn tunes using sheet music.  I have found that for a very familiar tune, I can change keys with a little practice.  I have sometimes transposed the music sheet to make it easier.  I have not wandered far, however, changing only between C, G, or D and their associated modal keys.  I have seen my teacher switch without any real practice, so it is possible.  I do not believe our brains are "wired the same" and he has more experience as a musician than I can ever get.

Edited August 6 by David Lay

[Bill N]

If I was starting over again I would endeavour to use the whole keyboard right from the start.  Initially I played very much in the "home keys" and along the rows.  It became a habit I had to partially break when I started to play in a more cross row style.

 

A helpful exercise is to take a simple tune that you know well, and find the fingerings to play it in C, G and D.  Fool around a bit and look for alternatives, using the duplicates and bellows reversals available for many of the notes.  It's kind of like practicing scales on a piano.  

 

I found that once I found the finger patterns for each key and played enough tunes they became second nature, and it's not difficult to change keys on the fly (in the common keys).  Having said that, I mostly play in trad sessions where about 90% of the tunes are in Gmaj, Dmaj or their relative minors or modes.  

 

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

With Anglo you do not have to just stay in its set up labelled range of ( eg, C and G) as example, transferring into multiple other keys is possible, and virtually any other tonal range is also possible. Certainly get used to exploring over the rows, not just on one of the rows, so that you will help your fingers become used to where everything is.

And try use all of available fingers ( not just a few ) ..or one or two. Develop these habits now at early stage in learning, so that later on you will be able to more readily tackle more advanced stuff later on .

[Jane_in_UK]

I really appreciate these responses. They've reassured me that the different key issue is one that even experienced players find a little challenging - I've decided to stop worrying about it for the time being! 

 

Although I only got my concertina a fortnight ago today, I quite by lucky accident chose a course of study (Caitlín's) which encourages cross-row playing from the very outset. Before I signed up for the course I played the free basic lesson (The Primrose Lass) dozens of times and taught myself the fingering by heart, so it was quite a surprise to find that once I'd paid for the course The Primrose Lass is tune 24 of the 29 tunes taught in the beginner course...it made 'Mary Had A Little Lamb' seem quite easy in comparison. Since then I've spend a portion of each day practising scales using the alternate buttons to get me familiar with all 3 rows...it's quite an education! 

 

[Peter Laban]

While it is probably a bit early for you to worry about, transposing tunes is another skill that you can learn. Some people ignore it and just get another instrument, sit it out or whatever way they deal with it. That is fine. It is  however a useful skill to have and it comes from knowing your music and your instrument well.

I have probably given the example before but on one occasion a few of us were playing a session centered around pipers playing  flat sets in C. In comes a young woman some of us knew. We invited her to sit in, warning her we were playing in C related keys. "Not a bother' she said and pulled out her concertina, a regular C/g Anglo.  She transposed any tune that came up,  on the fly. She never missed a beat all afternoon. 

As I said, it's a useful skill to have. And she definitely didn't need to buy (or carry atound) an extra Bb/f concertina.

Edited August 6 by Peter Laban

[jim troy]

Caitlín will not give you a tune you cannot handle, she's that good
The Primrose Lass ?  a doddle,
my first one was Tim Maloney's, from Róisín Broderick
( at 70 )
Stick with Caitlín, you'll be flyin' it, in jig time.

[Clive Thorne]

If you've only been playing for two weeks then I would stick to the home keys for now, plenty to learn just in those!

 

Try to learn the layout of the whole keyboard though, both in terms of names of the notes in your head, but also start training your fingers as to where they are (both hands). Bring those notes in as and when you feel ready.

 

Will you be playing irish or english style. If English then start to learn the three main chord shapes for each key, bearing in mind that some chords are available in both directions.

 

Give it time, but when ready for the next key I'd go for D. Mainly because with G, C and D you will have the three main keys of english sessions. Also my teacher says that D is a good third key because you have viable main chords in both directions. 

 

However, take your time, start with simple tunes, and enjoy the journey.

 

EDIT: Just read the bit were you mention Caitlin, hence I guess Irish style. Therefore ignore most of what I say above. Do take the time to explore the keyboard though.

Edited August 6 by Clive Thorne

[Kevin Knippa]

In a session I attend sometimes, the flute and whistle play a few tunes in a different key than I know if on the C/G Anglo and fiddle/mandolin. These are usually tunes I know in G but the flutes and whistles prefer A. I am have just made the effort away from the session to learn those tunes in both keys. If I had an A/E Anglo I would be able to play a G tune in A with the same fingering. Maybe one day...

[AndyNT]

Hi Jane

 

Nobody has asked the obvious question yet of what type of music do you wish to play on your anglo?

 

AFAIK Caitlin will be teaching a fingering style suited to Irish traditional music, however there is also an alternative harmonic style where left hand plays chord accompaniment to a right hand melody. John Kirkpatrick is a great exponent of the harmonic style which is well suited to English trad repertoire.

[Jane_in_UK]

1 hour ago, AndyNT said:

Hi Jane

 

Nobody has asked the obvious question yet of what type of music do you wish to play on your anglo?

 

To be honest I haven't fully decided what type I want to play. I can't afford one-to-one lessons so I trawled the internet looking for a good online course and the only ones I could find seemed almost exclusively aimed at the Irish style of playing. 

 

Given a level playing field of course options I'd probably NOT play Irish style as it's a little too frenetic and fast-paced for my taste, but if that's the only style of course available online then so be it. 

 

I've dipped a toe in the water with a one month subscription to Caitlin's course and at the end of that month I'll probably commit to the annual course if I can't find a non-Irish alternative. Caitlin's course seems excellent so I'm not complaining - I just wish there was a little more choice of courses out there for us distance learners who feel drawn to other styles of playing.