English system conversion to Piccolo

[Tiposx]

Has anyone worked on, or seen a home brewed piccolo english concertina, or a conversion to piccolo?

I imagine there must be a standard ec somewhere that had been converted to the higher octaves, perhaps using the reeds from an extended treble.

Alternatively, has anyone looked at converting the top end of an extended treble to give "lines on the left"

I would be particilarly interested in the technical aspects e.g chamber size, reed frame slot size, pad hole sizes.

Cheers

Tiposx

 

[d.elliott]

I have seen a conversion, I assume using reeds from an extended treble. A lot of reed chamber shimming with wood, not only in the housing but in some vents. Not all reeds sounded well, possible because the chambers were too big, Don't know it was a long time ago. My own piccolo is a Jones, 

[fred v]

Can someone explain to me something about the hole slot beneath the reed? How does the size of this slot affect the tone or volume or???

I have a model 21 EC and the air button is very slow to react and let air in or out. Also the instrument is not as fast a player as my other Wheatstone.

[d.elliott]

The hole slot under the reed is called the vent. Unless the reed tongue is catching in the vent, then it is unlikely to cause your problems.

 

Air buttons are either simply aids to opening & closing, or they are 'bowing valves', one on each side intended to meter out pressure to mimic a fiddler's bowing technique. If the concertina is not responsive then took at the valve condition (too stiff) and/ or  the reeds are gapped too tightly, i.e. are set too closed.

 

[Tiposx]

4 hours ago, d.elliott said:

My own piccolo is a Jones, 

Hello Dave

Is your piccolo a standard EC size, how many buttons, and is there any chance of a photo please?

Thank you

Tiposx

[d.elliott]

My piccolo is not a common frame size being 140mm across the flats, for comparison my wooden ended Wheatstone is 158mm AF.

 

The pic is rosewood ended, bone keyed (with felted key holes) and has 5 folds. Being a Jones with the broader reeds, it sacrifices the low A and Ab on the LH side and the low G and G# on the RH side

[Tiposx]

That is interesting. I didn't know that Jones had made such a thing. I have only seen pics or video of the edeophone or similar very top end 'tinas.

I will keep my eyes open for a relatively affordable piccolo model, but I won't hold my breath!

[4to5to6]

I think I have a reed scaling chart for an English Piccolo including most of the extra info you are searching for if this will help.  PM me. 

 

I want to do the opposite and build treble reed pans for my piccolo.

[Clive Thorne]

On 8/24/2025 at 1:57 PM, 4to5to6 said:

I think I have a reed scaling chart for an English Piccolo including most of the extra info you are searching for if this will help.  PM me. 

 

I want to do the opposite and build treble reed pans for my piccolo.

 

So we have Typosx wanting to convert from standard to Piccolo, and 4to5to6 go Piccolo to standard?

 

Seems to me that an instrument swap would answer both of your requirements?

Edited August 30, 2025 by Clive Thorne

[4to5to6]

I would like a 5” ATF treble.  Wheatstone made these upon request and also did factory conversions of piccolo to treble later on.  My piccolo is a one off, gold ended good era Aeola… I think many would get very upset if I butchered it.  I would like to build new reed pans when time allows.  I’ve got a couple of donor instruments that are not worth fixing up but do have very nice steel tongue medium scale reeds that should work fine.  It will happen.

.

[Tiposx]

I have been trying to persuade a piccolo owner to sell, without success.

My mind is focussed on the subject though, even whilst on holiday in my caravan. I have my travel instrument with me, a tiny Stagi A18 mini, which has given me an idea. I remembered that I have on old Ukranian soprano range cba at home, that I haven't been able to sell. It has separate accordion-style reed plates.

It might not be very good, but it might be a temporary solution.

"It will happen"

Edited August 31, 2025 by Tiposx

[4to5to6]

I could always make you a piccolo.  Or I could make you a set of piccolo reeds that would fit into regular treble reed pans… chamber sizes would be off as well as everything else but it would work to some degree.  Hmm… would be an interesting experiment.  Seriously… let me think about it.

.

[Tiposx]

I have started to attempt a conversion of the Stagi A18 mini from treble to piccolo. It was an easy decision as the Stagi action assembly has been misbehaving whilst on holiday. So I have decided to replace the original action with a riveted set-up. At the same time I will attempt to convert it to piccolo using salvaged reeds from my old CBA.

So a question - do the sound holes in the fondo need to be smaller? If so what size should they be?  The original holes in the Stagi fondo are all 9mm. The holes in the soprano CBA are 10mm (the high reeds are very unresponsive at that size though)

the Stagi range will be one octave higher than standard. The new range will be C5 to B6.

I was thinking that the piccolo might suit smaller holes, say 7mm in the top octave and 8mm for the others?

Any ideas welcome. It will only be a fun instrument.

[Tiposx]

[Tiposx]

[Tiposx]

I experimented with different sized pad holes on my tuning bellows and found that 8mm worked for all the reeds, so I have bored the holes to that size. The holes are in a similar location to those on the original. This means that I could use the original reed stacks and reeds if necessary. But the higher octave reeds are shorter (of course) and my hope is to mount them flat to frames on the fondo. I am also hoping that I will be able to affix the reeds with screws. It is all a tight fit, but my measurements mock-ups are encouraging.

[Tiposx]

After much trial and error I have made the first lever assembly. It looks promising, but there are a lot of things to fit in there and made to work properly. Thankfully there seems to be plenty of headroom for the two levers that have to cross over. This is going to be a long project!

[Steve Schulteis]

What diameter rod/wire are you using for your levers?