English Concertina layout variants

[TxConcertina]

I recently purchased a Lachenal Paragon 48 button EC. I am still trying to get around the keyboard. One thing I have noticed though is that in the notes for the C scale it seems that the B and B flat are changed, meaning the B note is on the outside row. Is it common to have this variation? 

[Don Taylor]

No, it sounds like somebody swapped the reeds.  

 

This should be easy to fix if you know what you are doing.  Before you try this get a copy of Dave Elliott's book 'The Concertina Maintenance Manual'.  

 

Hobgoblin has it for a decent price in the USA: https://www.hobgoblin-usa.com/local/sales/products/GM47009/concertina-maintenance-manual/

[Little John]

1 hour ago, TxConcertina said:

One thing I have noticed though is that in the notes for the C scale it seems that the B and B flat are changed, meaning the B note is on the outside row. Is it common to have this variation? 

 

It's not exactly a variation. Some instruments were deliberately made this way for playing brass band music. Your instrument plays a 'natural' scale of F and would be used for playing Eb brass parts. (The 'normal' instruments playing a natural C scale would play the Bb parts.) There were two sizes of these F instruments: F tenors and F basses. The tenors would go down to C3 - i.e. one octave below middle C. The F basses are an octave lower. Note, though, that as far as the written music is concerned their lowest note was G - the same as trebles, baritones and basses.

 

If your instrument is one of these F instruments you will find that where you would expect a D# you will have Db. If you wish to convert it to a normal C instrument any competent repairer can swap the B and Bb reeds and tune the Dbs up to D#. You will find the notes to be one row higher than normal - so middle C will align with the top of the left hand thumb strap rather than the centre. It's actually easier to play. I have a converted F bass. I got the Bs and Bbs swapped but didn't realise about the Db/D# issue so it still has Db. Very rarely a problem.

[Don Taylor]

39 minutes ago, Little John said:

There were two sizes of these F instruments: F tenors and F basses. The tenors would go down to C3 - i.e. one octave below middle C. The F basses are an octave lower.

 I think that the Paragon was only available as a treble?

 

It would be a good idea for TxConcertina to map out the actual notes sounded on all of his buttons and compare that to the standard layout for a treble EC.  There are many apps on Apple and Android phones that can be used for this.

[TxConcertina]

6 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

 I think that the Paragon was only available as a treble?

 

It would be a good idea for TxConcertina to map out the actual notes sounded on all of his buttons and compare that to the standard layout for a treble EC.  There are many apps on Apple and Android phones that can be used for this.

Are there are layout diagrams for the F concertinas?

[Little John]

6 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

 I think that the Paragon was only available as a treble?

 

Ah, I didn't know that. So if middle C aligns with the middle of the left thumb strap it's probably the case that someone has been messing about with it.

 

If TxConcertina can tell us where the middle C button sits and whether it has D#s or Dbs that should settle it.

Edited May 13 by Little John
Typos!

[Little John]

2 minutes ago, TxConcertina said:

Are there are layout diagrams for the F concertinas?

 

Probably not. The intention is that you play from what looks like treble music. When you see a middle C in your brass band score you play the 'middle C' button - the one that aligns with the centre of the LH thumb strap. It actually sounds the F five notes below (or an octave and five notes below in the case of an F bass). That's just how brass band music works - it's all written as if for a treble instrument. Pick the instrument that matches the line in the score and it all comes out right. What is written as middle C (C4) actually sounds as C4, F3, C3, F2 or C2 according to which part/instrument you are playing.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

For info, find attached, usual layout for 48 F Transposing 'Treble English. 

48 English F TransposngTreble.doc

 

As the dimensions, inside and out, and the action layout were the same as the C Treble, it was not unknown for two sets of interchangeable reed pans to be requested. One in F & one in C.

 

Geoff

Edited May 14 by Geoffrey Crabb

[Little John]

35 minutes ago, Geoffrey Crabb said:

For info, find attached, usual layout for 48 F Transposing 'Treble English.

 

Thanks, Geoff. Interesting. What was the logic behind such a layout? To me it would make more sense if the Es and E flats were also changed so that it became a Bb transposing instrument.