Reed shoe dimensions

[gtotani]

On 5/11/2025 at 6:36 PM, d.elliott said:

gtotani, The drawings you post are for a variant of accordion reed. I would not use them as a standard for a true concertina reed. 

@d.elliott, 

 

Just by curiosity, could you please explain in what way they are “variant of accordion reed” and not “true concertina reed”? How is “true concertina reed” defined? Can I find such description in your “The Concertina Maintenance Manual”?

Edited May 20 by gtotani

[Jake Middleton-Metcalfe]

On 5/13/2025 at 3:00 PM, gtotani said:

@d.elliott, 

 

Just by curiosity, could you please explain in what way they are “variant of accordion reed” and not “true concertina reed”? How is “true concertina reed” defined? Can I find such description in your “The Concertina Maintenance Manual”?

 

The differences are a bit vague in this area and it's probably somewhat open to debate. It's a steel reed in a brass frame with angled outside edges so it can go into a concertina reedpans so by that definition it is a concertina reed. As I understand it the way the tongue is designed and scaled was based on a reed design for a sort of accordion in a particular area of Germany, rather than being based on say reeds made by say C.Wheatstone and Co or H. Crabb and Sons for example. Is that actually a problem? Well there are a number of makers who use these reeds and continue to do so which would imply that they are good. 

 

Perhaps someone with actual experience of these could comment? I have always been somewhat curious about these reeds, as one very well might be when making them yourself is very laborious. 

 

In the case of making a set yourself as an interesting project it does probably make sense to copy a vintage set made in England. Though if you want to make an instrument it would be a much easier option to buy a set of these Czech reeds.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

 

[Chris Ghent]

2 hours ago, Jake Middleton-Metcalfe said:

 

The differences are a bit vague in this area and it's probably somewhat open to debate. It's a steel reed in a brass frame with angled outside edges so it can go into a concertina reedpans so by that definition it is a concertina reed. 

 

Trouble is nothing is simple. Concertina reeds are steel (and brass and nickel silver), the frames are brass (and aluminium) and the frames have angled outside edges except when they don’t (screwed down reeds).  
 

To my mind the defining aspect of concertina reeds is actually the angled undercut reed slot underneath the reed. This allows air to spill around the tongue as it gets down in the slot.  Accordion reeds have vertical slots and rely on the tapered reeds to effectively shorten as they bend down and thus spill air.  Yes, there are exceptions.
 

The CZ Harmonikas semi-hybrid reeds I have seen had riveted spade shaped steel reeds and brass frames with beveled sides but vertical reed slots, so to my mind effectively an accordion reed.  The steel was not very hard, it could be harder now as this was some time ago.

[Jake Middleton-Metcalfe]

7 hours ago, Chris Ghent said:

Trouble is nothing is simple. Concertina reeds are steel (and brass and nickel silver), the frames are brass (and aluminium) and the frames have angled outside edges except when they don’t (screwed down reeds).  
 

To my mind the defining aspect of concertina reeds is actually the angled undercut reed slot underneath the reed. This allows air to spill around the tongue as it gets down in the slot.  Accordion reeds have vertical slots and rely on the tapered reeds to effectively shorten as they bend down and thus spill air.  Yes, there are exceptions.
 

The CZ Harmonikas semi-hybrid reeds I have seen had riveted spade shaped steel reeds and brass frames with beveled sides but vertical reed slots, so to my mind effectively an accordion reed.  The steel was not very hard, it could be harder now as this was some time ago.

I see. I did not realise the slots on the czech reeds were not angled on the inside. 

Edited May 23 by Jake Middleton-Metcalfe

[Chris Ghent]

2 hours ago, Jake Middleton-Metcalfe said:

I see. I did not realise the slots on the chech reeds were not angled on the inside. 

I believe some users of the CZ reeds adapt the frame after purchase.