Wakker weakness

[doodle]

I bought a used Wakker C/G 39 key a while back from Chris Algar and it has been a real joy to play. However, I've found that a few of the higher, lesser-used reeds are a bit slow and slightly muted compared to the rest. This is not true of some of the lesser-used lower pitched reeds, which speak loudly and quickly along with the rest of the box.

As I believe Wakker makes his own reeds/frames etc and uses quite a large variety of sizes, I'm wondering is this just lack of playing (although I have given these reeds a hard solo workout to try to improve response and volume) or is this a case of needing a re-setting of reed tongues or something else.  As far as I can see, the reeds are all Wakker originals.  In all other respects it's a really great 'tina.  Any thoughts would be welcomed.

Edited April 7 by doodle

[Tiposx]

It's more likely to be the valves. They can curl away, or stick down occasionally. They might benefit from a little close inspection and manipulation. 

[Alex West]

Not forgetting that some of the higher pitched reeds on a C/G don't typically have (or need) valves...

 

Alex West

[doodle]

As you say, Alex, the main culprits, just a couple of accidentals at the top end of things, are valveless.  However, a bit of judicious reed 'pinging' with a piece of fine shim (gathered decades ago from Colin Dipper) seems to have improved response and volume somewhat.

[David Lay]

I have been challenged in getting the smallest reeds to sound quickly.  Frank Edgley offered that the set of the smallest reeds at rest can be a sensitive adjustment.  I did my best, but found that my B6 remains stubborn to sound.  (It's a good thing that I have yet to need it.)  Perhaps your Wakker needs such adjustments.

[Geoff Wooff]

Are  those  quieter  reeds  positioned   not  on  the  periphery    but in  the  centre  of  the  reed  pan ? I  had  a similar  problem  with  a  Wakker  Hayden  where  a  few  reeds   were  a  little  quieter  than  the  rest  and  these  were  all  located  towards  the  middle  of  the  pans.  Improved  by  minimizing  the  crossection  of  the  valves  and  increasing  pad  lift....  the  notes  'breathed'  a  little  better  after  that.

[doodle]

Thanks, Geoff.

These are actually peripheral reeds and pretty small.  There's no 'buzz,' so I'm thinking that the reeds aren't fouling the frames - it has been warmer of late and I did wonder initially if there had been some squeezing from contracting wood. I'm not sure such a thing could happen, especially as Wakkers have pretty robust sound-boards and can wood even close a small brass frame, anyway? So I'm checking out a PM'd suggestion about discs associated with the pads. Tony

[Wally Carroll]

If the frames were being squeezed you would hear a harsh metallic sound.  Very small reeds are very difficult to make so that they have a good response.  Using a thinner valve can help, removing an existing valve can help,  or even adding a thin valve (if one is not already present) can help.  It will all depend on how the particular note was made.  The tongues might also be able to be filed thinner though this is a very treacherous path to go down with really small, high pitched notes.  I'd look at the valves and if that doesn't do it, then consider either contacting Wim Wakker or just living with it.  Most players never actually use these notes all that much so it might be more trouble than it's worth.

[doodle]

Thanks Wally, your expert view is much valued and I am indeed pretty resigned to living with what is a small, and as you say, seldom used/met irritation.

 

[Chris Ghent]

12 hours ago, doodle said:

Thanks, Geoff.

can wood even close a small brass frame, anyway? 

no trouble at all…

[malcolm clapp]

On 4/8/2025 at 8:41 PM, David Lay said:

 ...my B6 remains stubborn to sound.  (It's a good thing that I have yet to need it.)  Perhaps your Wakker needs such adjustments.

I assume, David, that you are referring to the high end of the G row. I have struck quite a few C/G anglos of various makes that have an F natural instead of a B on the push in this chamber. Some would appear to be the original factory reed, while others have clearly been after-sale (and comparatively recent) replacements, so one must assume that the failure of the high B was not an uncommon headache for players and makers alike over many long years.

 

This may, or may not, be relevant to the OP's problematic reed responses, but could be a contributing factor. The dimensions of the chamber do not always suit the difference in reed size and air flow to cater for two reeds pitched this far from one another, being B push and F# pull. Such a difference is virtually imperceptible with lower pitched reed pairings, but seemingly not so at the higher end of the range.  In theory, F push and F# pull would be a more balanced combination.

 

While I'm not convinced that F natural would be much more use than the B6 to the majority of players, at least it might be better than having an annoyingly silent reed as David is experiencing. Of course, the limitation of fitting a slightly longer reed may well be the size of the chamber, and the cost of a replacement reed may well be unjustified, but could be worth considering.

 

 

Edited April 10 by malcolm clapp
Off topic content deleted

[Frank Edgley]

Years ago, the first Dipper I owned had this problem with the very highest note. For all the time I had it it's was very difficult to get this note to sound. I have since found that it can be improved, somewhat with the set of that reed (RS G row  5th button pres) This is a very delicate adjustment. It needs to have a small awl and razor blade to do it. First press the tongue down with the awl so that the tip is just below the surface. near the base of the reed so that the tip is level or just below the surface of the frame. Then lift the tip up with the razor blade, while keeping the base of the reed low so that the tip of the reed is even or just above the surface of the frame. This will put a very small curve in the reed tongue. This is very much a trial and error adjustment, but it can improve the response somewhat. We're probably talking  tenths of a millimetre, if not less. Fortunately, few melodies need that note!

Edited April 10 by Frank Edgley

[d.elliott]

I agree with Frank, but with the warning that as you bend the reed tongue you run the risk of dropping it's pitch by a couple of cents. The other thing I would mention is that if no valve is fitted then you may be loosing some air or even stalling the reed with too much air. I have seen, and have copied myself a trick where the tip end of an appropriate valve has had the top 1/3rd of it's length cut off obliquely exposing some of the vent in the reed pan. This is so you get free air to start the reed, but not enough to stall it 

[doodle]

Just for context, the reeds concerned are on the right-hand end, pushed A and pulled F (6th button, top /Acc. row) also pushed G and pulled E( button 5, G row).  Although I thank Frank for his guidence, i'm not sure I'm confident in adjusting a reed to lift it's tip.

I have been careful to try not to over force the reeds, in case there is stalling, however both these buttons seem to take plenty of pressure with hardly any distortion of pitch.  They just seem 'muted' compared to adjacent reeds and the general playability of the instrument.

I shall let things lie for now and play-on.  I play a harmonic style, not single notes very much, so there's plenty of scope for ignoring this glitch.   I should stop seeking perfection, it's a very fine instrument and |I count myself lucky to have acquired it!

Thanks all