Fretwork end support pillars.

[BrokenBox]

Hi everyone. I have an 1851 Wheatstone that I've been hoarding for 40 years; bought as a wreck. I've finally decided to start repairing the fretwork ends, but I cannot understand why what appear to be support pillars for the ends are about 3mm below the actual ends. They don't actually support anything. I'd be glad of any help.

[DDF]

Those held a baffle in place.

[DDF]

Like this one.

[alex_holden]

What DDF said. I would add a disc of wood to the top of each pillar to build up their height so the underside of the end board is supported by the pillars when the box is assembled. Alternatively you can glue spacers to the underside of the end board.

[BrokenBox]

Thank you that's useful. What would the baffle be made of; I always assumed it was a cloth to let the sound out?

 

[Tiposx]

The wooden baffles look like spruce, but I have seen leather also. 

Edited March 17 by Tiposx

[Stephen Chambers]

The baffles in this one would have been spruce hexagons, held away from the fretwork by felt spacers - otherwise no air could have got in, or out, nor sound be emitted.

Edited March 22 by Stephen Chambers

[BrokenBox]

Thank you all again, that explains a lot! I've now searched for "concertina baffles" and found much useful information. I'm guessing someone took out the baffles of mine to make it louder and didn't do anything to support the fretwork and hence it got damaged. I don't have any thin spruce but I do have thin plywood.🙂

[Tiposx]

Make sure that there is a decent gap all the way around between the edge of baffle and the hex sides of the end plate. I think the photo from DDF indicates the right size of a circular baffle.

[d.elliott]

Often support pillars have card shims on top of them. regrettably almost equally often the shims are lost and the fretting is put under strain. It should also be remembered that the pillar hole should be a clearance hole around the structural screw so that the screw bites into the action plate/ padboard.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

A search for 'Thin wood boards for craft work', may be of use. 

 

This may also be of interest

Baffles etc..doc

 

Geoff

Edited March 18 by Geoffrey Crabb

[BrokenBox]

Thank you Geoffrey, that is very helpful. The more I look at this thing the more complicated it gets; especially as it 174 years old and I don't want to damage it any more than it is. I'll maybe price up a professional restoration. 🤔

 

[gcoover]

9 hours ago, Geoffrey Crabb said:

A search for 'Thin wood boards for craft work', may be of use. 

 

This may also be of interest

Baffles etc..doc 78.5 kB · 12 downloads

 

Geoff

 

Geoff (and others), a couple of questions about wooden "baffles" - 

 

1. Did they think that the spruce baffle would act like the soundboard of a stringed instrument?

 

2. Has anyone ever seen an Anglo with a wooden baffle?

Gary

[Richard Mellish]

8 hours ago, gcoover said:

 

Geoff (and others), a couple of questions about wooden "baffles" - 

 

1. Did they think that the spruce baffle would act like the soundboard of a stringed instrument?

 

2. Has anyone ever seen an Anglo with a wooden baffle?

Gary

As for 1, someone might have thought that, but surely not the people who made concertinas, who should have understood how they work. In a stringed instrument, energy is put into the strings by bowing or plucking, some of that energy passes to the soundboard, and the soundboard couples some of it to the air. But in a free reed instrument the movement of a reed into and out of its slot produces pressure variations in the air, i.e. sound, directly. The baffle can then only reduce the sound. It may reduce some frequencies more than others, and that may be desirable, but it surely cannot help to send sound out. The only somewhat analogous thing on a stringed instrument would be a mute.

[fred v]

I have a Wheatstone EC with metal ends. It has special reeds that are one size larger for each note. I was a Salvation Army instrument. The result of this is that it plays like a dream; unbelievable ease of sounding the notes. The down side is that it is very loud. At our session it dominated the others so I play my other tina. I will experiment with baffles to soften the sound. I really love playing this instrument more than any other that I've ever owned. I'll report back with the results.

[Little John]

On 3/23/2025 at 1:33 PM, fred v said:

... It has special reeds that are one size larger for each note. ... The result of this is that it plays like a dream; unbelievable ease of sounding the notes. The down side is that it is very loud.

 

This is interesting. If the notes sound very easily I would have thought it would be possible to play it quietly as well as loudly. Is that not the case?

[fred v]

Correct. It has a wide dynamic range. It is difficult to play quietly as it takes such a gentle touch with the bellows.

[Stephen Chambers]

On 3/19/2025 at 12:42 AM, gcoover said:

Geoff (and others), a couple of questions about wooden "baffles" - 

 

1. Did they think that the spruce baffle would act like the soundboard of a stringed instrument?

 

William Wheatstone's Patent No. 4994, of July 29 1824, may be somewhat relevant in this context:

 

It is for "A new method for improving and augmenting the tones of pianofortes, organs, and euphonons" by "covering as much of their external surfaces as possible with wooden or other frames ... covered ... withsome thin, elastic, and vibrating substance (vellum, parchment, canvas, paper, woven silk, linen &c.) tightly stretched over them. ... in order that ...the interior flexible substances they are covered with may receive the vibrations from the strings or pipes when sounded, aided by the sound boards".

 

Quote

2. Has anyone ever seen an Anglo with a wooden baffle?

 

I haven't.