des tracey Posted January 29 Posted January 29 (edited) Having acquired a new kitchen scales I decided to compare the weight of my concertinas and found the following: Jeffries C/G 30 bone button,metal ended 7 fold (David Robertson) bellows 50.1oz or 3lb,2.1 oz, or 1420gr Jeffries D/A 38 bone button, metal ended 6 fold Dipper bellows. 49.94oz or 3lb 2.1oz or 1419 gr. 1926 Wheatstone Linota C/G 30 metal button, rosewood ended, 7 fold Marcus leather bellows. 39.75 oz or 2lb 7.8 oz or 1127 gr. The comparatively significant weight difference between the wooden and metal ended concertinas might explain why some top players using them as their main squeeze. (note, it’s a LIDL scales so minor discrepancies may occur). Edited January 29 by des tracey To add narrative
Roger Hare Posted January 30 Posted January 30 (edited) Recent table of weights here. The older table lists several relevant(?) vintage instruments for comparison... Edited January 30 by Roger Hare
des tracey Posted January 30 Author Posted January 30 4 hours ago, Roger Hare said: Recent table of weights here. The older table lists several relevant(?) vintage instruments for comparison... Thanks Roger, I had an older table of weights where I weighed 4 different Jeffries concertinas. However I now realise that the number of folds in the bellows was not recorded and my latest weighing suggests (and there may be other more significant factors) that the type of bellows and number of folds may be of significance. I say this because both of my C. Jeffries are the same dimensions with bone buttons and as far as I can tell, from the same era. However the 38 key D/A with 6 fold bellows is slightly lighter than the 30 key C/G with 7 fold bellows. I expected the 38 key would be heavier. Go figure?
Richard Mellish Posted January 30 Posted January 30 3 hours ago, des tracey said: Thanks Roger, I had an older table of weights where I weighed 4 different Jeffries concertinas. However I now realise that the number of folds in the bellows was not recorded and my latest weighing suggests (and there may be other more significant factors) that the type of bellows and number of folds may be of significance. I say this because both of my C. Jeffries are the same dimensions with bone buttons and as far as I can tell, from the same era. However the 38 key D/A with 6 fold bellows is slightly lighter than the 30 key C/G with 7 fold bellows. I expected the 38 key would be heavier. Go figure? Those two Jeffries being near enough the same weight does strike me as very odd. I believe that reed frames contribute a large part of the total weight so, other things being equal, the more reeds the greater weight. Concertinas with aluminium frames, such as later pre-Dickinson Wheatstones and my early Dickinson can be noticeably lighter than the general run with brass frames. 1
des tracey Posted January 30 Author Posted January 30 (edited) Richard, I hadn’t thought of the differences in the reed frames as they are both C Jeffries with brass reed frames. However and I need to check this by opening both, the C/G would have lower notes and possibly larger reed frames albeit only one note lower than the D/A and the D/A would have higher notes and perhaps smaller reed shoes. I will do a comparison. Edited January 30 by des tracey Amens the post
Jake Middleton-Metcalfe Posted January 30 Posted January 30 I recently weighed a 40 button C/G Crabb Anglo with aluminium buttons, ends and reed frames, it came in at 1070gr I just thought I would post that here as to me it was really very light
SIMON GABRIELOW Posted January 30 Posted January 30 Maybe they should go on a diet and lose weight?😊😊😊
des tracey Posted January 30 Author Posted January 30 (edited) Just opened both up. I don’t really see much of a difference in reed shoe sizes, so still a little puzzled why a 38 key should be about the same weight as a 30 key in this case. pics of left hand reedpans: Edited January 30 by des tracey Misspelling
Richard Mellish Posted January 30 Posted January 30 I decided I should weight my 40-key Wheatstone (Dickinson) G-D with the Al reed frames. Kitchen scales accuracy uncertain, but they tell me 1200 g.
Jake Middleton-Metcalfe Posted January 31 Posted January 31 In the past I did place quite a high level of importance on concertina weight but have come to regard it as not that important nowadays, with regards to Anglos anyway. With the exception: if the player is playing standing up then the weight becomes more of an important factor. What do you other players think?
Tiposx Posted January 31 Posted January 31 As an older person I prefer the lighter EC models, which I often play standing up. The Anglos I always rest on one knee whilst seated, so I can cope with a heavier instrument. Having said that, I find that light concertinas seem to encourage more lively playing in a musical sense. For example, a low end Lachenal 20 button is a delight to play.
wunks Posted January 31 Posted January 31 I play a weighty 50B Jeffries duet. I also have a feather lite Morse anglo of the same dimensions that I havn't played much at all. The JD has a momentum factor which I find desirable. I'm sure this is subjective but I liken it to choosing a canoe. The modern kevlar/ carbon fiber models ( 19 lbs over 14'! ) are great for sheltered waters and small streams but for the big open windy lakes you want a traditional wood/canvas clunker with low bow ends that tracks well and maintains speed without paddling furiously. 😊 1
John Wild Posted January 31 Posted January 31 (edited) 12 hours ago, Jake Middleton-Metcalfe said: In the past I did place quite a high level of importance on concertina weight but have come to regard it as not that important nowadays, with regards to Anglos anyway. With the exception: if the player is playing standing up then the weight becomes more of an important factor. What do you other players think? When I began playing for a dance side many years ago, I had a wooden-ended edeophone. This was too quiet and mellow for playing with the dancers outdoors, so I looked for a metal ended instrument with a brighter tone. The first one I purchased for that purpose weighed a whopping 1.5kg and was too heavy for playing standing up. I then bought a Wheatstone model 21 metal ended instrument, which was so light by comparison at 1kg. That remained my instrument for playing with the dance side till they retired in 2019. Over the last few years I have been developing arthritis in my left hand, and playing standing is too much of a strain on my thumbs. The right hand is going the same way but a few years behind. Edited January 31 by John Wild Typing corrections
caj Posted January 31 Posted January 31 This discussion made me curious enough to weigh my MIDI anglo, which is 730g. Most of that is, I think, the use of red oak for the "chassis." It's still more than light enough that I have no issues playing the thing standing --- although having a corner on my knee still seems to help with rapid playing, a phenomenon I also noticed with my Crabb.
Ken_Coles Posted February 1 Posted February 1 On 1/31/2025 at 1:31 AM, Jake Middleton-Metcalfe said: In the past I did place quite a high level of importance on concertina weight but have come to regard it as not that important nowadays, with regards to Anglos anyway. With the exception: if the player is playing standing up then the weight becomes more of an important factor. What do you other players think? Dana Johnson expressed the same opinion some years ago. Ken
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