Having trouble with my Rochelle

[Fraxinus]

Hi!

While I am still putting together plans to build my own concertina (!), I am learning anglo on a second-hand, first-iteration Rochelle and working my way through the Anglo concertina tutor by Cohen Braithwaite-Kilcoyne. When I got it, the Rochelle was basically new, but I am struggling with how stiff it is. It is almost impossible to make quick changes of directions with the bellows, and it is really resistant when compressing it while playing to the point where it's making my arms and shoulders sore. Aside from briefly getting to play a beautiful Thomas concertina (which was smaller and had real concertina reeds rather than hybrids), this is the only concertina I've ever had experience with, so I am not sure if this is just a factor of these mid-quality beginner instruments, or if I'm doing something wrong. I've always stored it compressed in its case, and it lives in my office with my harps, which I try to keep at a very steady temperature. Advice would be appreciated! 

[Michael Eskin]

I would say that is very typical of the first generation Rochelle instrument and you would best be served by replacing it with anything else as soon as you can if possible.

 

I'm convinced these particular instruments have done more to dissuade people from playing Anglo concertina than anything else.  
 

I know the cost of a better instrument can be prohibitive from many people, but if I made the rules on instrument trade from China, these cheap concertina-shaped objects would all be impounded at the dock, taking directly to the dump, and incinerated. 🙂

 

The second-generation Rochelle 2 instruments I'm told are somewhat better. I have never played one of the later ones myself, but Bob Tedrow posted a review of one on Facebook and was fairly upbeat about it.

 

If you can find a used hybrid Edgley or Tedrow (or any of a number of other builders), you would have an instrument that is much more enjoyable to play and will retain its value should you have some need to sell it later on.

 

 

Edited January 23 by Michael Eskin

[Fraxinus]

Well, at least that answers the question of whether or not it is user error! I suspected as much. My experience in getting to mess around with the Thomas box was like night and day. Unfortunately, anything nicer is out of the budget. I'm planning on trying to build my own in due course. I've got a pretty diverse skill set in woodworking, bookbinding and instrument making that might coalesce into something more playable.  I am now a harp maker on my sixth harp after not being able to afford to buy a harp to play, lol. 

 

[Don Taylor]

2 hours ago, Fraxinus said:

I'm planning on trying to build my own in due course.

 

You could start out by making a decent replacement set of bellows for your Rochelle. 

 

There have been a number of videos and photo essays on bellows making and a few folks here might be able to get you started.

[Fraxinus]

That's a thought. I wasn't sure if it would be worth the effort, but I suppose that it couldn't hurt, and I would get practice in making bellows. 

[Roger Hare]

3 hours ago, Fraxinus said:

That's a thought. I wasn't sure if it would be worth the effort, but I suppose that it couldn't hurt, and I would get practice in making bellows. 

I wouldn't usually comment on something 'technical' like this (I don't have the essential practical skills), but Don's idea is such a good one that I will. This might(?) be a relatively low-cost way of acquiring one of those arcane skills which are needed by all concertina builders...

 

Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't consider acquiring a concertina with anything but leather bellows, but I do have a 'Duckling' from the regrettably short-lived Flying Duck Concertinas company. It has paper bellows.

 

The paper/plastic/fabric bellows on low-end concertinas are awful (as has already been said). The Duckling has paper bellows which do seem to work. They are made of very high-quality, heavy-duty paper of the kind which is (I believe) used by gold-leaf beaters as a substitute for vellum. I don't know what the correct name is for this sort of paper.

 

It looks as if the Duckling bellows are made from a single piece of this specialist paper, very craftily folded, so you would be able to practice your origami skills as well as making a set of bellows...🙂

Edited January 24 by Roger Hare

[Tiposx]

I made a set of bellows from Kraftex for a vegan. There were a few challenges, as the product is much stiffer than the 0.5mm leather that I usually use. This meant that I had to cut the cards from very thin plywood. Thinner and stronger than the usual cotton board , but quite a bit heavier. The method of construction was also different - the cards had to be glued into the full sheet of Kraftex, then the whole thing was rolled up into a tube shape, then glued along one seam.  Cotton board or cardboard would not have been strong enough to force the Kraftex into the bellows shape. When the glue had cured, I collapsed the tube and it assumed the concertina folds. As with the Duckling, the gussets popped outwards rather than in.

so the bellows seemed to work ok, but were stiffer than I would like. I sent them off to the owner, who wanted them for his vegan students I believe, but I don’t know how they fared.

Another drawback of Kraftex bellows was that they stiffen up in cold conditions.

I didn’t use the original Kraftex bellows that my own Duckling was built with, but I was very impressed with how Paul Harvey had designed them from scratch.

On topic, I would guess that a Rochelle would be transformed with a good set of bellows. It wouldn’t make good financial sense though.

Edited January 24 by Tiposx

[Roger Hare]

22 minutes ago, Tiposx said:

I made a set of bellows from Kraftex for a vegan etc...

Thank you. That clarifies most of the points which were unclear to me.

 

The paper bellows are a little stiffer than leather, but (IMO) not as bad as the Rochelle bellows. I hadn't noticed that they were a little stiffer at lower temperatures...

[Tiposx]

Hi Roger

To be accurate, the original FD bellows were removed and stored in my unheated garage (in  Durham...) for months. On a cold day they were really stiff.

Cheers

Tiposx

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

There is something wrong if your arms and shoulders ache when playing instrument; it could be that instrument or to do with posture, and the way you are physically approaching to play, just a suggestion🌝.

 

[Michael Eskin]

Simon, have you played a first generation Rochelle? 
 

They really can be just awful.

[Don Taylor]

6 hours ago, Tiposx said:

I made a set of bellows from Kraftex for a vegan. There were a few challenges, as the product is much stiffer than the 0.5mm leather that I usually use. This meant that I had to cut the cards from very thin plywood. Thinner and stronger than the usual cotton board , but quite a bit heavier. The method of construction was also different - the cards had to be glued into the full sheet of Kraftex, then the whole thing was rolled up into a tube shape, then glued along one seam.  Cotton board or cardboard would not have been strong enough to force the Kraftex into the bellows shape. When the glue had cured, I collapsed the tube and it assumed the concertina folds. As with the Duckling, the gussets popped outwards rather than in.

so the bellows seemed to work ok, but were stiffer than I would like. I sent them off to the owner, who wanted them for his vegan students I believe, but I don’t know how they fared.

Another drawback of Kraftex bellows was that they stiffen up in cold conditions.

I didn’t use the original Kraftex bellows that my own Duckling was built with, but I was very impressed with how Paul Harvey had designed them from scratch.

On topic, I would guess that a Rochelle would be transformed with a good set of bellows. It wouldn’t make good financial sense though.

This style of bellows construction sounds very much like the construction of the bellows used in old style high-end cameras.  There are lots of YouTube videos about making this type of bellows.  One idea that I liked was using pieces of Venetian mini-blind slats ironed flat as the stiffeners instead of card.   I am not sure if this style of bellows would work well for a concertina, especially an Anglo, but it is relatively easy to make compared to the usual concertina bellows.  I think that RAc recently made a set of bellows like these for his MIDI concertina, RAc?

 

I do not have a Rochelle but I do have an Elise which uses the same bellows and other construction techniques.  I think that the bellows are by far the weakest feature of these, and other Chinese-made, concertinas.  I have long thought about making a better set of bellows for my Elise which is why I have been following bellows making posts.

 

Too many years ago, Anglo-Irish man posted his story about replacing the synthetic bellows on his Stagi Anglo with leather bellows with very positive results:

 

[Tiposx]

I will start another thread in the construction section. I took some photos of my vegan method which might be interesting.

Edited January 24 by Tiposx

[Fraxinus]

In all honesty, I don't feel like I need to mess with anything other than leather and the more traditional cotton card when I eventually make bellows. I am a historical reenactor that has accumulated many reenactment-adjacent hobbies, including medieval bookbinding, glove making, and generalized leatherworking, so I probably have a binding quality hide around here already. Making new bellows might actually be a pretty good stopgap with a fairly low monetary requirement to hold me over until I can either buy/beg/trade/build a better instrument, lol. I've compared my posture/playing position to other players on youtube (I haven't run across another in-person player in my area to compare/troubleshoot in person), and I feel like it's pretty comparable. I think this rochelle is just kind of a struggle to play, but I bought it for about $200, so I don't feel too bad taking it apart to try to improve it. 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I must say I never heard of none leather vegan bellows before it sounds like a Cows singing contest😊

Edited January 24 by SIMON GABRIELOW

[Don Taylor]

5 hours ago, Fraxinus said:

In all honesty, I don't feel like I need to mess with anything other than leather and the more traditional cotton card when I eventually make bellows.

Here is a detailed photo essay on how to make a set of concertina bellows:

https://hmi.homewood.net/bellows/

 

[alex_holden]

Not to criticise Bob Tedrow's method, but there is more than one way to construct concertina bellows. The way I do mine is to cut out a lot of individual cards and hinge them together into strips, then assemble the strips to the frames on a simple mould. The devil is in the details: the very first set I made is still useful, but I feel like I keep finding small ways to improve them with every new set I make.

[Mikefule]

My first concertina was a Rochelle, brand new around 2005 ish?  It wasn't brilliant compared to my later more expensive instruments, but it was pretty good for the price.  A friend has one now and I played it the other day.  It's not a bad instrument, but it is built to a price.

 

All that said, my first concertina teacher, Keith Kendrick, could play my Rochelle very well indeed.

 

Fighting the bellows and giving yourself arm and shoulder problems sounds to me like you may be trying to play too loud.  Another common beginner's mistake is to play every note for its full value, leaving no daylight between the notes.  Combined with playing slowly because you are still learning, this means you use far more air, and therefore have to operate the bellows more.

 

The bellows will loosen up with use, but will never be as good as a handmade set of bellows that have been well played in.

 

Play with a light touch, tapping the buttons percussively rather than holding them down, except of course on the very long notes.

 

Play in short bursts: once or twice through a tune, then take a break for a minute or two.  Concentrate on being relaxed especially around the shoulders.  Don't hunch over.  Rest the concertina on your lap.  I prefer to rest one end on each leg, but some prefer to rest the middle of the bellows over one leg.  Either way is better than supporting the instrument with your hands alone.

 

Don't try to run before you walk.  As a beginner, it will do you more good to play Oh Susannah smoothly and confidently than to labour slowly and painfully through an ambitious Irish reel.

 

Finally enjoy it.