Are these cheap (almost Toys) stopping future players from progressing ?

[Alan Day]

I started my concertina life on a Hhoner which was cheap and playable. Within a few Months I was playing for Morris Dancing on it.

When I realised I was playing faster than the instrument would allow me, I up graded.

What worries me is the cheap concertinas that are being produced, that do not play properly from the start. Great that it attracts players to give them a try, but if they are a nightmare to play ,they are a complete waste of money and putting off progression on the instrument.

Do you agree ?

Al

[Phil Hague]

I bought one when I started, a complete waste of money ( I said cheap but it was still a lot of money). I soon found it was hard work and bought a good used instrument. 

The problem is that as a beginner with an interest in playing concertina there is very little information out there about the playability of instrument brands. I was completely unaware of forums such as this so relied on dealers and U Tube videos.

[Robin Madge]

I was offered a very cheap German Anglo before I could play. I took it home for a night and managed to get a couple of tunes out of it but thought it was just too cheaply made to last.

When I decided a couple of years later to take up an instrument I remembered that I had managed those couple of tunes so went for the most expensive Anglo that I could afford, after all they were appreciating so I would not lose out if I had to sell it again.

 

Robin

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I think it depends upon what one would call cheap, or what is affordable also.

My first concertina was a Kligenthal 20 key Anglo. Very sturdy, big buttons, but very reliable ( until I took it apart through curiosity!)..

It was (1988) £50 . But it did start me off in studying music generally.

The Hohner branded 30 key Anglo I have had 26 years now.  Still going strong, I use a lot. 

I do agree that some very mass produced ones being made with cheaper bellows, and no sign of quality control are not going to encourage anyone . 

But affordability does give people chance to try out a new instrument, and they can always save up for another model later on.( Without breaking the bank!)..

[alex_holden]

I agree but I don't have a solution. I regularly see people who want to have a go at the concertina but can't afford to invest thousands up front, so they spend a few hundred on a concertina-shaped-object that is horrible to play at best, or arrives faulty due to lack of quality control, or wears out after a few weeks due to cheap materials and shoddy construction. Maybe if there was an affordable way to rent a decent student-level instrument for a month or two like you can with violins? But then what do they do once they know what a good one feels like but still can't afford to buy one of similar quality?

[RAc]

I do not think that this issue is specific to concertinas, just aggrevated by the fact that concertinas are generally hard to find. 

 

[seanc]

I would say yes.

 

My experience of selling guitars is my reference. many times people/ parents/ good inteded relatives would buy essentially the  most awful instrument because it was "cheap". That off the rack was virtually unplayable. And the cost of making it "decent" would be cost prohibitive.

 

many of these came back to the store a few weeks later with a discouraged potential player. looking to sell or fix.

 

more often than not. Most gave up entirely.

 

I would assume it much the sale with concertinas. Except there is not the massive infrastructure of learning options available, as well as tons of even border line people with at least some knowledge or guitar experience. And, acess to bring somebody that has some knowledge along with a potential newbie to help advise.

 

 

[Jillser Nic Amhlaoibh]

When I was a kid starting out playing guitar I was lucky enough to stumble upon a nice second hand electric guitar in a pawn shop - a good price, low action, easy to play but perhaps not as "cool" looking as the cheap and not cheerful shiny new electric guitars some of my school mates had bought. They might've looked nice but were nearly impossible to play and not surprisingly the kids with them fell to the wayside. I think it was that past experience that led me to persevere with the concertina when I had rented a Rochelle from the Button Box years ago. I realised that it was that particular brand/model of instrument (and not concertinas as a whole) that was unenjoyable to play. Two weeks after renting it I sent it back and purchased a Tedrow that the Button Box had just got in stock. If I didn't have past experience with musical instruments and the importance of ease of play/quality then I may have just chucked in concertina playing altogether.

[Alex West]

I had almost exactly this question from a person who had inherited a concertina shaped toy and wanted to know if I could get it fixed up for her to accompany herself singing or if not, suggest an inexpensive concertina (as a small, light, portable instrument) which wouldn't be rubbish.  Cutting a long story short, I recommended a ukelele.

 

Andy Norman has an interesting series of YouTube videos going through the extensive work he has done to make inexpensive concertinas remotely playable at a cost of considerable use of his time and expertise. 

 

Alex West

Edited January 22, 2025 by Alex West
Mis-spelled a name

[wunks]

I have a couple of high end guitars and I'm amazed at the build and tone quality of some of the cheapos coming out of the Asian market especially Martin D-28 knock-offs.  I picked up a no-name  ( probably a promo ) for 50 bucks at a lawn sale and was given a Mitchell which retails under $200 I believe.  Both sound and play terrific.  I think once you have a desirable pattern and manufacturing expertise an acceptable instrument is doable.  Although I've never held one,  The Sherwood line of Anglos look promising and they've gotten some good reviews. Although hovering around $1K they're a bit pricey.   lots of advanced players use Hohner button accordions.  So they're capable of a quality build.  

 

I agree with Alex as to a Uke.  If you broaden your horizons there are lots of alternatives to be had while you're waiting for that special 'tina to turn up.

 

[seanc]

2 hours ago, wunks said:

I have a couple of high end guitars and I'm amazed at the build and tone quality of some of the cheapos coming out of the Asian market especially Martin D-28 knock-offs.  I picked up a no-name  ( probably a promo ) for 50 bucks at a lawn sale and was given a Mitchell which retails under $200 I believe.  Both sound and play terrific.  I think once you have a desirable pattern and manufacturing expertise an acceptable instrument is doable.  Although I've never held one,  The Sherwood line of Anglos look promising and they've gotten some good reviews. Although hovering around $1K they're a bit pricey.   lots of advanced players use Hohner button accordions.  So they're capable of a quality build.  

 

I agree with Alex as to a Uke.  If you broaden your horizons there are lots of alternatives to be had while you're waiting for that special 'tina to turn up.

 

Build quality from low $$ factories  has improved drasticaly in recent years. Between, CNC/ laser cutting etc. Even the "low end" (esp guitars) coming out of asia is as good or better than what US and Euro builders were puttting out even into the late 80s.

 

I could easily see asia pumping out "mid tier" instruments at very low prices. But, I just don;t think there is enough demand to warrant it, yet. 

 

If the CC level instruments saturate enough, and Concertinas generally start reaching a wider audience. I would hope to see more and higher tier asian offerings. 

 

[Stephen Chambers]

3 hours ago, wunks said:

 lots of advanced players use Hohner button accordions.  So they're capable of a quality build. 

 

You'll find the ones they use are vintage Hohner button accordions, made in Germany, and that they've often been improved/upgraded to meet the needs of today's advanced players.

 

Whilst Hohner have never acctually produced any concertinas themselves, they've always been badge-engineered for them.

[Cathasach]

I'm not sure what brands/models you're talking about but I started on a "Trinity college" Chinese made concertina that is at best Not Good and it was still good enough to get me started.

 

Are 

[seanc]

46 minutes ago, Cathasach said:

I'm not sure what brands/models you're talking about but I started on a "Trinity college" Chinese made concertina that is at best Not Good and it was still good enough to get me started.

 

Are 

i DO NOT know this is a fact... But my sconjecture is that I would bet most all of these China made concertinas are produced in the same factory. But, different "makers" contract to have a few tweaks on the finished product.

 

 

But, what I would say is that there is a HUGE difference in the Rochelle/ Jack etc.. vs the mass chain variety  Hohners. They are certainly not perfect. but for a newbie, they are absolutely playable instruments capable to get started and test out the concertina waters.

 

Edited January 22, 2025 by seanc

[Clive Thorne]

My first experience of holding/playing an anglo was a borrowed bright red chinese (?) thing in about 1977. One of those that had harmonica type reed plates. In retrospect it was awful, but at the time I had played nothing to compare it to, and it got me interested enough to buy first a melodeon (Hohner D/G - Hooray), and eventually a nice Crabb/Jeffries Anglo.

 

So it worked for me.

Edited January 22, 2025 by Clive Thorne

[Clive Thorne]

1 hour ago, Stephen Chambers said:

 

You'll find the ones they use are vintage Hohner button accordions, made in Germany, and that they've often been improved/upgraded to meet the needs of today's advanced players.

 

Whilst Hohner have never acctually produced any concertinas themselves, they've always been badge-engineered for them.

 

Off Topic, but I still reckon that the Hohner D/G melodeon (even a Chinese one) is still a good instrument and great value for money. Way better quality and value than your than your typica chinese built concertina. Starting on one of those would certainly not put anybody off learning.

 

[Alan Day]

I think this is just the information we need. I was happy with my Hhoner when I started and it all worked. I read so often here of major problems with new purchased concertinas. A cheaper good starter instrument with few problems will answer a lot of questions.

Al

[wunks]

1 hour ago, Stephen Chambers said:

 

You'll find the ones they use are vintage Hohner button accordions, made in Germany, and that they've often been improved/upgraded to meet the needs of today's advanced players.

 

Whilst Hohner have never acctually produced any concertinas themselves, they've always been badge-engineered for them.

Philippe Bruneau comes to mind.  I had an Erica myself once ( it was stolen 😔 ) and it played beautifully.  It's hard to think of it as vintage but I suppose it is, as am I 😊