How to change range on EC ?

[Marmotin]

Happy new year everyone !

 

I hope someone can enlighten me about this :

 

I'm currently learning to play on a Jack baritone EC. It is my first instrument but obviously a bad choice, as I soon realised that playing fast on the lower notes was too difficult. So I now mostly play tunes on the higher notes. In the same time, I'm saving money with the aim of purchasing a not so expensive old Wheatstone one day.

My question is : Is it worth it to force myself playing in the lower register on the jack, as I may later find an instrument with the same notes in the same place ? Will that be a treble, tenor-treble ? Something else ? 

It would be nice not to have to learn all over again because of instrument changing. But maybe I'm delusional.

If so I'll continue playing the Jack in the higher register and will go for new songs on the next one.

 

Thanks

[Tiposx]

As I understand it the Jack and Jackie are in standard treble layout. So if you used your learned fingering on any standard treble e. g. Lachenal, Wheatstone, Jackie it would also be an octave higher than the notation.

To play conventional trebles easily (I mean as written), you need to learn tunes your Jack in the lower octave.

Edited January 1 by Tiposx
Clarification

[Marmotin]

Ok thanks a lot for answering me.

Good to know the layout is the same on a standard treble English.

For now on I'll work on the proper octave, so that I'm not building muscular memory for nothing or just be able to play in very high pitch

Thanks again !

[d.elliott]

The issue with respect to responsivness may well be the make of instrument rather than it's octave of pitch. 

[Marmotin]

I'm sure a very nice instrument with amazing bellow (I'm aware Jack/Jackie are beginners instruments) and all can improve the playing. But I got a folding church pump organ and bass notes surely needs more air than treble ones. The reeds vibrate even with a tiny bit of air. This is very much confortable on the concertina, for example when changing from push to pull. But you're right, I might work on improving my playing on those details.

[Tiposx]

Cheaper concertinas tend to be less efficient, so you use more air than on a higher quality box.

[Marmotin]

It is nice to know. Although cheaper concertinas are all I can afford, I still think beginning with a baritone was not the better idea, and I'll better go with a treble next time.

Anyway thank you guys for your answers and considering my newbie problem

[Randy Stein]

I have two students who are learning/learned on the Jack Concertina. There is plenty of music to play that allows you to use the full range of your keyboard. 

You have to work with and allow for the limitations of the Jack: large reeds, slow action, tight bellows, etc.

One of my students has become quite a proficient player and has not allowed the limitations stop them from playing popular folk, classical, and polyphonic pieces. They recently purchased a tenor/Treble that will allow them a higher range to play.

Don't despair. Work with what you have until you're ready to move to the next phase of your concertina journey.

Edited January 2 by Randy Stein

[Marmotin]

Thanks for your consideration Randy. Indeed I began re-learning the tunes I know down an octave, and to my surprise, it's not so difficult. Although the fingering is different, I happen to discover that having the habit of singing the notes name in my head while playing, now helps a lot. So I play the tunes slowly and try to focus on how the bellows react and how to correct my playing.

Also I just purchase a stagi A18 (found one for 170 euros on a second hand website) and even if it will probably not be the best action response instrument, I'm really curious to discover how it will goes.

[Tiposx]

Hi Marmotin

Pop those notes!
There are a few of those A18 around - on  YouTube for instance. I have one, it would be interesting to hear how you get on with yours.

[Marmotin]

I'll let you know how I feel about it !

What's your opinion about yours ? Any positive or negative points ? Any advice ?

[Tiposx]

Re the a18. The buttons and action are quite good. The button spacing is wider than usual, but I don’t find that a problem, just needs getting used to when you swap instruments. It will play fast if required. The tone is ok, a bit boxy but projects well. Some notes are louder than others, but I haven’t  tried to adjust that yet.

The bellows on mine are shoddily made, and there is one air leak to track down. They can pump hard and make a big noise, but run out of air quite quickly when approaching the limits of travel. I plan to make new bellows eventually but there are a lot of folds!
The “big thing” though is/are the holding points, which are useless. The stiff thumb straps grip my poorly thumbs like vices, yet don’t offer much control of the bellows. I am in the thinking stage of a redesign.
The finger rests are similar, but in the wrong position and orientation, and totally useless for the little fingers. I have removed those, and have made some prototypes, which are not right yet. I have seen photos of metal finger rests on the earlier versions, which may work, I don’t know.

Having said all that, I like it! It will suit my purposes as a fun/holiday instrument when I get round to the improvements. It can certainly play a tune or two.

I knew what to expect when I bought it new. Yours is a bargain price.

 

Edited January 3 by Tiposx
typos

[Marmotin]

Ok thanks for that.

Indeed, it was so cheap I thought I had to give it a try.

I have this same feeling that it could be a good idea to give it new thumb straps.

Regarding the pinky ones... I agree, they look as useless as a boat in a forest...

There is an accordion/concertina seller and repair shop here in Brussels. They're only open on appointments. As I didn't spend too much on this A18, I think I'll go meet them and see if they can improve the thing for a few more money.

Thanks again !

[Marmotin]

Also looking forward for what you will imagine redesigning it ! Hope you'll share your findings!

[alex_holden]

1 hour ago, Tiposx said:

The “big thing” though is/are the holding points, which are useless. The stiff thumb straps grip my poorly thumbs like vices, yet don’t offer much control of the bellows. I am in the thinking stage of a redesign.
The finger rests are similar, but in the wrong position and orientation, and totally useless for the little fingers. I have removed those, and have made some prototypes, which are not right yet. I have seen photos of metal finger rests on the earlier versions, which may work, I don’t know.

 

You might be interested to read about Henrik Müller's modifications:

https://www.concertinajournal.org/articles/no-thumb-straps-no-finger-rests-but-it-is-an-english-a-personal-journey/

[Marmotin]

Update on the Stagi a18:

It arrived yesterday and I truly don't regret buying it (especially for such a cheap price).

I find the sound very nice, even better that the Jack's sound. Much clearer. The wider button space isn't a problem, in fact they are more close to the end and so the playing is amazingly more comfortable, I'm having so much pleasure with it !

Regarding the pinky straps, they do well with my hands (very long fingers) and secure the grip of the instrument in a way I enjoy. Personal opinion here.

The thumb straps however will probably be a problem. The leather is really thick and rough so it hurt a little my skin. Ok for now but I will probably change them for softer supple ones in the near future.

As you can see on the picture attached, the Bb button is coming out a bit twisted, but it's not affected the playing. Although I may try a little repair by myself later. Any advice on that welcome.

I call it a Stagi a18 although it is a Saltarelle, but it is just rebranding I guess.

It came in a non padded soft bag but as I really enjoy it and want to use it when I travel, I would love to find a suited hardcase for it. I contacted concertine.it, but they don't have some for this model. Does anybody have a clue where to find one, or any alternative options?

 

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

You don't need a box made specially for your concertina. Any container can be padded up to fit.

Perhaps one of those cooler boxes which are sold for travelling ( food boxes ) could be adapted. A camera gadget type case with suitable space. Well padded with plenty of soft material to cushion instrument will be quite suitable for concertinas.

 

[Phil Hague]

I first bought a Jacki myself. I found it very hard to play. Soon bit the bullet and bought a Wheatstone English. It has the same button layout with 48 buttons. It is so much easier to play, lighter on the bellows and more responsive. I have been playing concertina for 11 months now and I am just beginning to get the lower notes (I call them the growlers). I would advise buying a good quality used instrument as I did.