Good Christian Men Rejoice - Elise Hayden Duet Concertina Video Tutorial With Sheet Music

[Daddy Long Les]

Here is my tutorial for this lovely traditional Christmas carol. The sheet music is attached.

 

 

Good Christian Men Rejoice - Elise Hayden Duet Concertina.pdf

[DaveRo]

Have you considered  using a  sub-octave treble clef for the left hand? It suits the design of the Hayden perfectly: the same button on each side corresponds to the same position on the staff.

[David Barnert]

2 hours ago, DaveRo said:

Have you considered  using a  sub-octave treble clef for the left hand? It suits the design of the Hayden perfectly: the same button on each side corresponds to the same position on the staff.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to that approach. I considered it years ago and gave it up. While it does provide a neat correlation between what the right and left hands are doing (and means Hayden players who didn’t grow up playing the cello, as I did, don’t have to learn bass clef), it runs into problems when a melody note must be played with the left hand and all of a sudden which octave is intended becomes confusing.

 

The left hand part of DLL’s arrangement is in the higher octave. It doesn’t go below middle C until the very last note, so he gets away with using a standard treble clef for both hands, but anyone trying to transcribe a piece where the left hand spends time in the lower octave will find that awkward and have to choose between bass clef (as I have chosen, although it “wastes” the lower half of the clef) or sub-octave treble, as you have.

[DaveRo]

Here's an ABC of it with the accompaniment in treble-8, which is what I'd play it from.

It lost the fingering and the push/pull during conversion.

X:1
T:Good Christian Men Rejoice - Elise Hayden Duet Concertina
C:Trad. arr. Daddy Long Les
S:https://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?/topic/28781-good-christian-men-rejoice-elise-hayden-duet-concertina-video-tutorial-with-sheet-music/
Z:Accompaniment transcribed to sub-octave treble clef
%%score { 1 | 2 }
L:1/8
M:6/8
K:Fmaj
V:1 clef=treble
F | F2 F A2 B | c2 d c2 c | F2 F A2 B | c2 d c3 | c2 d c2 B | A2 G F3 | G2 G A2 G | F2 G A3 | 
c2 d c2 B | A2 G F2 F | G2 G A2 G | F2 G A3 | D2 D E2 E | F3 c3 | A2 A G2 G | F6 |] 
V:2 clef=treble-8
c | d2 c fed | c2 f e2 f | d2 c fed | c2 f e3 | f3 e3 | f2 e d3 | f2 z f2 e | d2 e f3 |
f3 e3 | f2 e d2 z | f2 z f2 e | d2 e f3 | z2 z d2 ^c | d3 e3 | f2 f f2 e | A6 |] 

 

[Don Taylor]

Would it be fair to say that DLL's arrangement is basically the Soprano and Alto voices of a SATB arrangement?

 

If so, then maybe we could use the Soprano and Alto voices of other SATB arrangements as the basis for Hayden arrangements. 

 

What about using the Soprano and Tenor voices?

[David Barnert]

20 minutes ago, Don Taylor said:

Would it be fair to say that DLL's arrangement is basically the Soprano and Alto voices of a SATB arrangement?

 

If so, then maybe we could use the Soprano and Alto voices of other SATB arrangements as the basis for Hayden arrangements. 

 

What about using the Soprano and Tenor voices?

 

When I met Brian Hayden in 1993 he claimed to be able to play 6-voice choral pieces on his instrument.

[DaveRo]

12 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

Would it be fair to say that DLL's arrangement is basically the Soprano and Alto voices of a SATB arrangement? ... What about using the Soprano and Tenor voices?

In the Wikipedia entry on octave clefs that  I linked to earlier it says:

Quote

Such a modified treble clef is most often found in tenor parts in SATB settings, using a treble clef with the numeral 8 below it. This indicates that the pitches sound an octave lower. As the true tenor clef has fallen into disuse in vocal writings, this "octave-dropped" treble clef is often called the tenor clef.

In Brian's Duet Concertina Workshop Tutor, under 'Notation for Hayden and Crane Concertinas', he uses treble and bass clefs. He then shows the button positions on a baritone staff. Later he appears to show scores with two treble clefs. (Though it's unclear from the facsimile copy that I have.)

 

Wim's tutor for the Elise starts off using two treble clefs and then says "In order to be able to notate the lower notes of the left hand, we have to use a a different clef" and then introduces the bass clef.

 

I understand why treble and bass clefs is the default - and will be familiar to pianists - but if like me you don't already know the bass clef, and have some facility with computers, I recommend using a 'treble-8' clef instead.  (I described my approach in this thread.)

[David Barnert]

15 hours ago, DaveRo said:

I understand why treble and bass clefs is the default - and will be familiar to pianists - but if like me you don't already know the bass clef, and have some facility with computers, I recommend using a 'treble-8' clef instead.  (I described my approach in this thread.)

 

My point earlier was this:

 

One of my favorite tunes is Banks of Inverness. The first measure looks like this (I’m running low on upload space, so rather than upload images, I’m providing links to Michael Eskin’s abc tool which will show the notation).

 

Note the low B, which is below the range of the right hand buttons on my 46-button Hayden. So I play it on the left side. With the accompaniment it looks like this.

 

If I were to notate it with the treble-8 clef it would look like this, which I find disorienting because it is not obvious how that B relates to the rest of the melody in terms of which octave ie is in. Note, on my Mac, Firefox draws the little 8 under the clef correctly, while Safari draws it well below the clef and a little to the right.  YMMV

[DaveRo]

Thanks for explaining that.

 

Question: Is the lower stave for the left hand, or is it for the accompaniment? I would put the whole melody on the top stave - even if the odd note is off the bottom of the right hand end.

 

My approach so far has been to learn the melody first, until my fingers can play that without involving my brain - or the score - then to add the accompaniment. (I've read recommendations that you shouldn't do that, but it's worked for me so far on the limited number of tunes I've learned.) So I want to hear the melody all through, or small parts of it, and the same for the accompaniment, which is only possible if each occupies a separate stave. My score-reading is nowhere near good enough: I can't pick up the tune without hearing it.

 

With Banks of Inverness I might transcribe the whole tune up a bit since I'm playing solo. But if I wanted to keep it in G I'd put that note on the top staff even if I intended to play it with the left hand. That way the melody plays correctly, and the relationship of that note with the rest of the melody is clear. I'd mark it on the printed score as a 'special'. (I have several of those - usually notes off the top of the left hand.)

 

When I learn the left hand. I like to play the accompaniment alone, to hear the 'melody of the accompaniment' as it were, if it has one. I might also include that melody note on the lower staff so that I can work out the fingering: it sort-of becomes part of the accompaniment at that stage.

 

I wouldn't want to be prescriptive on how to score wrong-handed notes. I'd do whatever worked. But overall I find it much easier to use only treble clefs - the constant relationship between the lines on the stave and the buttons on either side. And I've found quite a few tunes already scored that way, usually for 2 or more instruments.

 

BTW, the ABC I posted earlier for Good Christian Men... is not really correct in that I transcribed the left hand up an octave - the initial C became c. That shouldn't be necessary just to change the clef. I did it that way so that the score would be correct and it would play in abcjs based websites. Using EasyABC I normally just change one line, like this:

 

V:2 treble-8 middle=B,
C | D2 C FED | C2 F E2 F | D2 C FED | C2 F E3 | F3 E3 | F2 E D3 | F2 z F2 E | D2 E F3 | F3 E3 | 
F2 E D2 z | F2 z F2 E | D2 E F3 | z2 z D2 ^C | D3 E3 | F2 F F2 E | A,6 |]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by DaveRo
Typo.

[Don Taylor]

1 hour ago, DaveRo said:

V:2 treble-8 middle=B,
C | D2 C FED | C2 F E2 F | D2 C FED | C2 F E3 | F3 E3 | F2 E D3 | F2 z F2 E | D2 E F3 | F3 E3 | 
F2 E D2 z | F2 z F2 E | D2 E F3 | z2 z D2 ^C | D3 E3 | F2 F F2 E | A,6 |]

 

Maybe posting screenshots of the resulting score would be better than posting ABC notation.

[DaveRo]

I didn't post a pdf score earlier because it lacks the OP's fingering and other instructions so I didn't want it propagated. My post was, really, a question to @Daddy Long Les: had he considered it?

 

I assumed that anyone reading this forum can copy-paste ABC into their favourite ABC program or website and see what it looks like. And play it.

 

That recent snippit was for ABC afficionadi.