Used Wren Concertina - All buttons attached to each other?

[Rexotank]

Hi y'all.

 

I've been putzing around on a 20-key anglo for about a year now. I saw a Wren on the market for about ~300 USD and decided to go for it. The women selling it couldn't tell me much about it, only that she was selling it for a friend. Perhaps foolishly, I decided to go for it anyways. While I did in fact recieve what I assume to be a genuine Wren, right off the bat I noticed I couldn't actually press any of the buttons without the other ones going down as well. Upon taking apart the Wren, it appears all the buttons are bound together by a board. Each button is secured by a drop of glue to the board. I've no clue why this would be a thing, as my 20-key has no such board and I've not seen any pictures online of anything similar. It also appears the board was glued to the face (I'm guessing the name) of the concertina. I'm not sure what to make of it and would appreciate any advice before I ruin something trying to remove it.  

Edited December 4, 2024 by Rexotank

[Tiposx]

It looks like the board is some sort of button damper, is it made of soft material like felt or neoprene? If so it is supposed to be glued to the inside of the end panel, rather than glued to the buttons.

[Tiposx]

I mean you should carefully remove the board from the buttons.

[Rexotank]

 

6 minutes ago, Tiposx said:

is it made of soft material like felt or neoprene? If so it is supposed to be glued to the inside of the end panel, rather than glued to the buttons.

It seems like it definently once was glued to the end panel, seeing as it even took a small sliver of the end panel with it. However it feels closer to something like balsa or some other hard thin material. It's difficult to photograph, but the side facing down towards the reeds is smooth and glossy

[Bill N]

Is this only a problem on one end?  If so, is there a similar board glued to the back-side of the fretwork on the other end, and do the buttons pass freely through it?

[Rexotank]

1 hour ago, Bill N said:

Is this only a problem on one end?  If so, is there a similar board glued to the back-side of the fretwork on the other end, and do the buttons pass freely through it?

I haven't disassembled it to confirm, but it feels identitcal so I would assume so. That is to say, the buttons do not pass through freely.

Edited December 2, 2024 by Rexotank

[Kevin Knippa]

It's lightweight plywood. It should be glued to the underside of the end plate and there should be a similar piece of plywood attached to the other end plate.

 

 I have a Wren 2, which has metal covered buttons that I think are a smaller diameter than the white buttons on the Wren. In the Wren 2 the plywood plate that is black and stuck on the keys in your photos is not painted and is very firmly glued to the end plate. 

 

It is possible the Wren will function without this piece of plywood, but it would probably make sense to reglue it to the end plate. If the keys do not move freely through the plywood, though, I wonder if it is original or if the concertina has been exposed to high heat or high humdity, which might explain the plywood coming unglued. 

[Rexotank]

2 hours ago, Kevin Knippa said:

It's lightweight plywood. It should be glued to the underside of the end plate and there should be a similar piece of plywood attached to the other end plate.

 

 I have a Wren 2, which has metal covered buttons that I think are a smaller diameter than the white buttons on the Wren. In the Wren 2 the plywood plate that is black and stuck on the keys in your photos is not painted and is very firmly glued to the end plate. 

 

It is possible the Wren will function without this piece of plywood, but it would probably make sense to reglue it to the end plate. If the keys do not move freely through the plywood, though, I wonder if it is original or if the concertina has been exposed to high heat or high humdity, which might explain the plywood coming unglued. 

Well, that answers what it is then, and concerns me a bit. Appreciate it! 

 

Do you reckon wood glue would be appropriate for reattaching it? 

Edited December 3, 2024 by Rexotank

[Nigel Champion]

It's also unusual having 10 (+1) buttons on one side and 15 (+1) on the other!

Nigel

[Rexotank]

12 minutes ago, Nigel Champion said:

It's also unusual having 10 (+1) buttons on one side and 15 (+1) on the other!

Nigel

Hi Nigel, 

 

If you're refering to one of the images I posted, thats because those are from 2 different concertinas. The left one is my 20 key and the right is the Wren I purchased. That would be an interesting setup though... 

[Rexotank]

After having taken it apart and done my best to clean stuff up, I've come to 2 new hypothesies. The board has some sort of rubberized coating on the bottom, and this concertina was either stored or transported in way-too-hot conditions. I believe that the buttons slighly melted and adhered to the boards coating. Kind of annoying, but not the end of the world. 

 

Or maybe it is just the melted glue. Either way, it comes off with some careful carving.

[Don Taylor]

16 hours ago, Rexotank said:

Looking at this picture from your earlier post, it looks like the buttons are also glued both to the rubber grommets (the brown discs) and  to the lever arms.

 

I don't think that this is right

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I have never seen such an odd predicament; with the buttons glued onto panel

Even on my own (Hohner or Stagi 1990s model).  There is a wooden panel glued only to the metal facing , which all the buttons go through, but certainly NOT fixed onto the buttons ! Maybe someone tried to do their own DIY job, and hoped no one else would see it?( With it all being hidden inside! And they did not expect it to be opened up!

[d.elliott]

I've seen this before.

 

Under a metal ended instrument's key board is often a bushing board, on better instruments these are about 4- 5mm thick and carry the usual end plate bushings. other times these are just wood or leather. their purpose is to smooth the stroke of the button and to protect it from rattling and particularly wear against the 'sharp' metal key hole edges. They are usually screwed into place with 4mm long countersunk wood screws. When a couple of screws are lost the buttons start to jam. If someone varnishes under the bushing board you can get the same result. 

 

In this case the solution is easy, run a reamer, or drill from the action side of the board to re-create the sliding fit over the buttons and re-bond to the end plate, better still, screw it in place. I use a tapered reamer to re-create a relief into the inside of the instrument.

 

 

[Stephen Chambers]

What commonly happens with this style of construction is that a reaction occurs between the rubber bushing and the plastic button, so that a soft, sticky, glue-like substance is formed - it's probably this, surrounded by those unorthodox "bushing boards", that is sticking everything together...

[Rexotank]

23 hours ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

I have never seen such an odd predicament; with the buttons glued onto panel

Even on my own (Hohner or Stagi 1990s model).  There is a wooden panel glued only to the metal facing , which all the buttons go through, but certainly NOT fixed onto the buttons ! Maybe someone tried to do their own DIY job, and hoped no one else would see it?( With it all being hidden inside! And they did not expect it to be opened up!

According the woman I bought it from, the original owner purchased it but then never actually played it, so I guess that leaves something happening during shipping? A bit of a mystery, I can't imagine shipping conditions to be that hot.

[Rexotank]

4 hours ago, Stephen Chambers said:

What commonly happens with this style of construction is that a reaction occurs between the rubber bushing and the plastic button, so that a soft, sticky, glue-like substance is formed - it's probably this, surrounded by those unorthodox "bushing boards", that is sticking everything together...

That seems to describe whats happened here. Do you know if it's just a product of heat, or perhaps some other catalyst? In any case, thanks for the explanation. 

[Kevin Knippa]

I have never see anything stating the difference between the original Wren and the Wren 2, but this might be why the design changed.

 

Your "bushing" plate looks like it is plastic and the buttons are a different material than the Wren 2.

The Wren 2 "bushing" plate is lightweight plywood, glued to the action board. The Wren 2 buttons are metal covered acetal. 

 

You can certainly fabricate a new "bushing" plate, and you might be able to find replacement buttons, such as these from Hobgoblin (meant for the Sherwood Kirklee) https://www.hobgoblin-usa.com/local/sales/products/GX47100/sherwood-mb-kirklees-metal-concertina-button/, if you want to go the trouble.