Stagi Hayden Duet and noob questions

[doggomancer]

I just found one for under $900. Primary questions: (edit: decided not to buy from that store) Does Stagi make good instruments? 

 

I think I want to get a duet concertina. I have not played any type yet but Hayden duet seems to make the most sense to me. From the recordings I've heard, the Stagi has the range I think I'll need. 900 plus shipping is kind of a lot for an instrument for me. I suppose I can sell it if I end up hating it. 

 

other questions: can accordion techs generally conduct maintenance on concertinas? Where can I get instructional books for above? More questions I forgot...

Edited November 25 by doggomancer

[David Barnert]

I’m an experienced Hayden player, so I guess I’m expected to chime in, here, but the truth is I know nothing about the current market for Stagi Haydens and even less about the quality of the current crop. Stagi has undergone many changes since I reviewed one when they first came out some 20+ years ago.

 

All I can offer in terms of answers to the above is that I’m not aware of any published instructional books except for the one that is produced by Concertina Connection and comes with their Elise model. I don’t think they sell it without the instrument.

 

Sorry I couldn’t be more help.

[John Wild]

Do you mean instruction books for maintenance of instruments or for playing the instrument?

[David Colpitts]

Can't help but chime in, since I am an "advanced beginner" or so on the Hayden Duet.  As David B. said, there have been some changes at the company producing the Stagi.  I have tried them out (and might have bought one, if not for the rather serendipitous purchase of an old Bastari Hayden for under 600 bucks, 4 years ago.  Those are "hen's teeth" now, but may turn up.  The problems most people cite for the Stagi involve non-Hayden-standard button configurations and angles of key rows relative to the handrest, which frankly I think I'd adjust to, as a beginner.  For my taste, the sound is sweet but sort of muffled, or rather, soft.  Not a super fast or super responsive concertina, but nonetheless (again, to me) rather appealing little chromatic box that does offer a lot. But, have you considered a Concertina Connection Elise model?  Smaller range/fewer buttons, but under 500 bucks new and used to come with full money back if traded in for another in the CC lineup.  I actually preferred tha action and sound of my Elise to the new Stagi, but missed being able to play in key of A.  As wiser people always ask, what sort of music do you most want to play?  And you can get a great idea about Hayden duets (and other types) from apps like Michael Eskin's or MusixPro on iPad or phone.

Edited November 25 by David Colpitts
grammar

[David Colpitts]

Just realized your first question didn't get answered.  I did a search and found under $900 at one on-line store, but closer to $1500 at the other place my search turned up.  With that discrepancy, I'd be inclined to research a bit, particularly on the lower priced offer, and check reviews.  If all checks out, that is a reasonable price these days, I think.  But still maybe not "twice as good as" an Elise, for starting out.

 

 

 

 

 

[doggomancer]

3 hours ago, John Wild said:

Do you mean instruction books for maintenance of instruments or for playing the instrument?

Both.

 

Thanks everyone for the knowledge.

 

I want to be able to play anything. Fully chromatic + easy access to low and high notes = everything, right?

 

I'm somewhat open to English as well. I've been trying to wrap my head around the buttons (got a simulator app) but it just doesn't make as much sense as Hayden. I'm guessing books for English are easier to find, too which is a big advantage. And Stagi has an octagonal English, which is really cool IMO.

[Cornfield]

There are ipad apps with both layouts.

I recently went through the same decision making process and decided on the English system. With this system, alternating between the left and right sides it is easier to do a run for me. 

 

 

Edited November 25 by Cornfield

[doggomancer]

4 hours ago, David Colpitts said:

Just realized your first question didn't get answered.  I did a search and found under $900 at one on-line store, but closer to $1500 at the other place my search turned up.  With that discrepancy, I'd be inclined to research a bit, particularly on the lower priced offer, and check reviews.  If all checks out, that is a reasonable price these days, I think.  But still maybe not "twice as good as" an Elise, for starting out.

 

 

 

 

 

I thought I had checked the shop reviews and I'm glad you reminded me. The box I mentioned is from Jim Laab's music. Reviews about that establishment are very much mixed, but the negative ones had a really crap time of it. I'm questioning whether I want to deal with that kind of drama or support people who are apparently jerks.

 

Update: found even more reviews with several people claiming they have terrible customer service. So nevermind about my first question then.

Edited November 25 by doggomancer

[doggomancer]

I'm probably gonna get the Concertina Connection Jack. I don't like the fact that most of the money is going to China but I really want a concertina. I like the Jack's range (I'll be able to sing over it), although more notes would be nice. 

 

Anybody have tips for English fingering? I played a little bit of piano and a lot of violin. This is going to be way different.

Edited November 26 by doggomancer

[David Barnert]

10 hours ago, doggomancer said:

I played a little bit of piano and a lot of violin. This is going to be way different.

 

Perhaps not. The concertina, and particularly the English concertina, was originally conceived as an analogue for the violin. Before people started writing music for the EC, it was largely used to play violin music. They have much in common: similar range, strong on melodies and drones, counterpoint difficult but not impossible.

[doggomancer]

I've played a bit of xylophone too. That also required the hands taking turns. My brain is growing, guys! Concepts are forming in here.

[Cornfield]

18 hours ago, doggomancer said:

I'm probably gonna get the Concertina Connection Jack. I don't like the fact that most of the money is going to China but I really want a concertina. I like the Jack's range (I'll be able to sing over it), although more notes would be nice. 

 

Anybody have tips for English fingering? I played a little bit of piano and a lot of violin. This is going to be way different.

I bought a Jack a few weeks ago, got my feet wet and started looking to upgrade. I’ve ordered a used Morse Albion that should arrive today. 

[seanc]

I had an older stagi Hayden...

 

 my little in sight would be this.. It is REALLY big. It was very slow. No idea if the newer ones have improved considerably. But, the older Stagis were known to be inconsistent as far as function .

 

If it were me.. I would probably opt for CC Elise. And get started on the Hayden that way to se if it works for you. 

 

 

Edited November 26 by seanc
Spelling

[seanc]

22 hours ago, doggomancer said:

Both.

 

Thanks everyone for the knowledge.

 

I want to be able to play anything. Fully chromatic + easy access to low and high notes = everything, right?

 

I'm somewhat open to English as well. I've been trying to wrap my head around the buttons (got a simulator app) but it just doesn't make as much sense as Hayden. I'm guessing books for English are easier to find, too which is a big advantage. And Stagi has an octagonal English, which is really cool IMO.

 

 

Duets are, of course chromatic.

 

BUT.. All duets have limitations.  And that pops up pretty quickly when you start looking at your range of notes and then corrosponding scales. Most Duets are going to do C, G, F realy well.. But you'll find as you move further away (more sharps or flats) the more difficult and limited your range becomes.

[Tiposx]

2 hours ago, Cornfield said:

I bought a Jack a few weeks ago, got my feet wet and started looking to upgrade. I’ve ordered a used Morse Albion that should arrive today. 

I had a Morse Albion for a couple of years, it was an excellent instrument. In particular it was easy to play fast, loud if needed and very light in weight.

[inventor]

Instruction books.

There are several Instruction Books for Hayden Duet Concertinas.

I started to write one myself specifically for a small group of players who had made very good progress with the right hand side, but less so with the LHS. It started with just one note in each hand; then two, and so on. It later expanded to an all systems beginners tutor for the other Duets; when I was asked to take all system duet classes at concertina weekends, and at the Sidmouth Folk Festival week. This will be found on the concertina.org website.

Somewhere on this website there is a series of instruction lessons for the Hayden Duet, by a lady who used to work for Button Box: perhaps some other member might help you to locate it.

Now if you are really serious about taking the Duet Concertina as far as you can go, (and I would recommend this for any type of Duet), is the Palmer-Hughes piano accordion course. This comes in ten books, with extra books for practice with the first couple. You do not need to buy all the books at once; just each as you progress. It starts with the simplest tunes, and finally ends in book ten with the "Flight of the Bumblebee" !  The only addition that you need to use with this; is a translation of the Bass Clef.

Inventor 

[David Barnert]

17 hours ago, inventor said:

Somewhere on this website there is a series of instruction lessons for the Hayden Duet, by a lady who used to work for Button Box: perhaps some other member might help you to locate it.

 

All of the chapters are individually linked from this page (Everything posted by @judyhawkins). Start from the bottom.

Edited November 28 by David Barnert
added last sentence