new end plates

[wunks]

[Leah Velleman]

Oh, these look fantastic. 

[aeolina]

Lovely job! and thanks for starting a dedicated topic thread. Shows that the modification can be done with sensitivity the the original design and with reversibility. I'll add my version 2 3D printed plates when they are ready. My plan for version 3 was to send the finalized version 2 design to a specialist printing bureau but I'm so pleased with the material, colour and texture of the version 1 samples that I'll stick with that.

 

The benefits from the added plates continue to be significant.

[wunks]

The CNC laser and computer program ( not my stuff ) made it a very simple process.  A photo was taken of the end with a tape across it to establish scale.  From that the computer produced a tweakable template.  We ran several prototypes to get it right which only took 2 or 3 min. each.  After playing a bit an added benefit has emerged:  The plates act as a set of training wheels!  Playing with them on makes playing with them off much easier.  I thought of doing a set with plexiglass but Joel says his laser is blue light which just passes through that.   😊

[David Colpitts]

What is the material you used?  It does look nice!

[wunks]

The black is from stock sheets of crafting material on hand.  I'm not sure what type of plastic but it comes in squares about 10" by 10" with a protective film on both sides which was left on during cutting.  The blond prototypes are probably high quality birch ply.  A couple of those are usable themselves and should stain nicely.  Joel also made a set out of very thin hard cardboard which could be used as a shim under for a bit more thickness or atop as a protective layer.  The fussiest part was/is marrying the fretwork sample to the button field.  Inside Wheatstone's fretwork circle everything's asymmetrical.  I think I'll ask for another cut of the RH side to line it up a bit better.  The whole thing is archived so it shouldn't be a problem. I'll ask about the black material.  It cut very cleanly with the laser.

[fred v]

Looks great Wunks. I'm happy to see other players going with this design idea. You have to play for awhile to get used to the new feel. I now would never remove them. I like the idea that the instrument is capable of being played better than I am able to play. I know that as I improve the instrument will not encumber that process.

[wunks]

Yah.  I'm amazed at the result.  Because we made several prototypes, I've been trying out different thicknesses all the way up to leaving the button tops just proud of the surface.  At that point I feel like I'm losing some control over volume and voicing as well as referencing where I'm at.  1.2mm thickness seems about right for me.  Above that and it's scary!....😗 

 

By the way, although I had the advantage of some high tech expertise, It would be fairly easy to experiment with different layers of card stock.

Edited November 27, 2024 by wunks
clarity

[fred v]

With the large holes do you feel them? Mine are a very close fit but I still feel the hole. I chamfered them all a tiny bit which helped. It looks like your outer row is a bit too far out. By fine tuning the position you might be able to make the holes smaller.

Good job. Will you make your print file available for others to use?

[wunks]

I don't feel the holes but my buttons bottom out just before the shank goes totally below the plate surface.  I just experimented with a doubled plate which results in a button exposure similar to that of your side on photo in the other post.  This allows the top of the button to travel below the plate and I can definitely feel that hole edge!  I have a set out of very thin card stock that makes it about as thick as I'd like to go.  I like the oversize holes for the lean of the buttons.  In the photos the plates are loose on the ends.  Not a perfect fit but very close.  It's a Jeff duet with unique pattern and spacing so not of much use to others I'm afraid.  

[digver]

Something I've wondered about with end plates is how much the placement and size of the negative space (cut out areas) affects the balance of the tone and volume.

I'm in line to have a concertina made and considered designing my own end plate, but quickly got overwhelmed at the prospect of how it would affect the tone, balance, and volume. And that is without considering the material used.

[fred v]

Digver, in the above case it makes no difference what so ever since there is no open grill work under the button plate.

 

Wunks, I removed the felt washers on the bottom ends of the buttons. These are there so as to adjust the stroke of the buttons and make them all depress the same amount. With the plates you want your finger to slightly touch the plate. This tells your brain to stop pressing. Muscle memory kicks in then.

[wunks]

It all comes down to individual preferences I suppose.  For me the sweet spot is with about one sixteenth of an inch of the button shank showing above the plate.  Any less and I feel like I'm losing something, although I can't put my finger on it...🤣

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chris Ghent]

8 hours ago, fred v said:

Digver, in the above case it makes no difference what so ever since there is no open grill work under the button plate.

 

Wunks, I removed the felt washers on the bottom ends of the buttons. These are there so as to adjust the stroke of the buttons and make them all depress the same amount. With the plates you want your finger to slightly touch the plate. This tells your brain to stop pressing. Muscle memory kicks in then.

That is not the reason why they are there. They are there to stop the button making a noise when it is depressed and the bottom of the button hits the action board. They are typically all the same thickness.

[aeolina]

I promised to provide an update once I had completed test driving a series of different thicknesses of 3D printed add on end plates to lower the travel distance of the buttons on my brand new Caledonian System concertina (more on the system coming later). 

 

My initial reaction was that there was a significant improvement using added plates that were neither too shallow nor too deep. However, I took the box out to its first session a couple of weeks before Christmas and left the additions off. I've been playing without them ever since and think I'm doing just fine without them. That said, I'm going to have another go with them before I reach a conclusion.

 

I'm certainly very satisfied (and excited) by the benefits of the new system layout for playing Scottish music and I'm now sure it would be of great interest to anyone playing mainly  Irish on English system who could do with some sympathetic adaptations. As I said, more about that later.

 

In terms of the button heights/travel distance I'm sure this is very much a matter of personal taste plus playing style. I have fairly long, thin fingers and play with a percussive style and a short distance is less of a requirement. My friend Paul Connelly who plays a lovely English conversion with the same Müller hand supports/straps as mine at our session has his buttons set very low and I can see the benefits for his style which contrasts with mine. I'll post photographs, video and audio examples in due course.

 

How are others progressing with the add-on plates?

 

Stuart

[wunks]

On 11/22/2024 at 1:15 PM, wunks said:

 After playing a bit an added benefit has emerged:  The plates act as a set of training wheels!  Playing with them on makes playing with them off much easier.  

 

[fred v]

It certainly takes getting used to when first playing with plates. My feeling is that once you so it for some time you won't want to play without them. I have another Tina without them so I can attest to that. The greatest advantage to thick plates is the ability to slide my fingers sideways  to play a natural note to an accidental sharp or flat as in "The White Petticoat" B part. Also sliding up to play a fifth note.

[aeolina]

9Good points Wunks and Fred v. 

 

I put my quite thin plates back on yesterday and although early I think I notice an improvement so will stick with them for a bit. It is not all about speed of course and lower buttons can allows easier sliding between buttons, as suggested, as well as facilitating double stopping and shifting chords.

 

Again. I think personal preference, style and repertory has a bearing. 

 

Many dedicated players of Scottish and Irish dance and piping music on English concertina develop their own a set of alternative fingerings to facilitate flow, meet the demands of the music and to ornament it in a traditional manner, including in emulation of fiddle, flute and bagpipe. Some incorporate harmony and full chords or even playing in octaves, while others prefer a more single line approach. These matters are irrespective of overall speed, although certain gracings do require rapid and crisp execution. Each approach has its own technical and stylistic demands.

 

In my own case I employ a melody only style and strive to include ornamentation and interpretation appropriate to the Scottish music world I inhabit. After of over 40 years on my beautiful Wheatstone Aeola I sought something more and developed the modified layout of the Caledonian system. This, combined with the adoption of the Müller Anglo-inspired hand strap/support and larger button array offset is proving to be a wise move. I am hoping that the additional end plates will make an additional modest yet significant contribution.

 

The Caledonian Concertina made for me by Andrew Norman in September 2024 can be seen and heard in the video link included in my separate dedicated post of today.