E minor (anglo, harmonic style)

[Leah Velleman]

Is it just me, or is playing "harmonic style" in E minor a real pain in the neck, either on a C/G or a G/D?

 

It seems like on the C/G you need fancy fingerings to avoid chopping, on the G/D the melody goes onto the left hand constantly and the notes you expect to be in the same direction aren't, and on either instrument the important chords are all bunched up and basslines require chopping or reaching. 

 

Do you have favorite tricks that feel especially nice in Em? Did you have some kind of epiphany that made it start feeling easy?

 

(This post brought to you by the melodeon players on my morris team, who naturally don't believe in the existence of other keys.)

[hjcjones]

Could you give an example of a tune you're having difficulty with?

[Jody Kruskal]

Which tunes specifically are you trying to play in Em?

[Clive Thorne]

Odd because JK told me that playing in E has the same push pull pattern as G or C, and E minor is inly 1 or two notes different (depending on which type of minor). Mind you he plays a 40 key, so that might help.

[Jody Kruskal]

Perhaps I'm the JK you refer to... or more likely John Kirkpatrick. Regardless, I love playing harmonic style in Em on both the C/G and the G/D, though the G/D is better for most tunes. Here is one trick to help make the tunes fit... don't be afraid to jump octaves with the melody, whichever way you need. Nobody will care or even notice that you do, even for just a few notes or for a whole section. For instance, if the B part goes down too low for comfort, just play it up an octave instead.

 

I do tend to play 38 button Anglos and those extra buttons do help, but they are not required to play as I do in Em or any other key. 30 button Anglos will suffice just fine.

Edited November 1, 2024 by Jody Kruskal

[Clive Thorne]

13 hours ago, Jody Kruskal said:

Perhaps I'm the JK you refer to... or more likely John Kirkpatrick. Regardless, I love playing harmonic style in Em on both the C/G and the G/D, though the G/D is better for most tunes. Here is one trick to help make the tunes fit... don't be afraid to jump octaves with the melody, whichever way you need. Nobody will care or even notice that you do, even for just a few notes or for a whole section. For instance, if the B part goes down too low for comfort, just play it up an octave instead.

 

I do tend to play 38 button Anglos and those extra buttons do help, but they are not required to play as I do in Em or any other key. 30 button Anglos will suffice just fine.

Sorry Jody, I did mean John Kirkpatrick. Repaet, "must not be so lazy in the future", "must not be so lazy in the future", "must not be so lazy in the future", "must not be so lazy in the future", "must not be so lazy in the future", "must not be so lazy in the future", "must not be so lazy in the future", "must not be so lazy in the future",  ....................................

[hjcjones]

Both Am and Em can be good keys (Em on G/D uses the same fingering as Am on C/G). I second what Jody says about "folding" the tune to avoid going too far into the lower octave, but don't be scared of going onto the left hand for a few notes either.

 

I wouldn't get too hung up about chopping either. Irish-style players try to avoid it as it can interfere with the rhythm or ornamentation, but they're usually playing a lot faster than harmonic-style where you may have a bit more space. Of course it should be avoided if it affects the rhythm of the piece, but sometimes it may be the easiest way to play something. Alternatively, try looking for reversals - sometimes playing a phrase in the other direction of the bellows can offer a way around a tricky bit of fingering.

 

Here's the Presbyterian Hornpipe played in Em on a 31-button G/D. The last four bars of the B part should go down if you play it as written, but I've shifted them up an octave to keep it on the right hand (all bar one low E which is played on the left). It does involve playing across all three rows (and not just for the accidentals) and uses reversals to avoid clumsy bellows changes, and it does drop onto the left hand for a few other notes besides the one I mentioned. Perhaps this is what you mean by "fancy fingerings", but they're fairly straightforward once you get used to them, and may also be useful when playing in G. No chopping needed.

 

https://soundcloud.com/howardj/presbyterian-hornpipe?si=4e046257a9784cd099cf8a41b111d004&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing&fbclid=IwY2xjawGR44hleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHUDftYjQj2zu1LAO2_rh_wRkrGNvOVwz8sl1MXaePt8UinmWqY_kJJ6ZKA_aem_e1kCkIVEUsaL2OcOK9stRg

 

PS tell your melodeon-playing friends to be more adventurous. A D/G melodeon can also play in A dorian and B minor, although they may have to fudge the Bm chord depending on how the left hand is tuned.

 

[AndyNT]

I play G/D.

Depending upon the tune, I might look at moving sections up an octave to keep the melody as much as possible on the right hand. Usually I'm starting on the G row and continuing up the D row. I often do something similar when playing in D as well.

 

Don't forget, you should have full Em chord on both push and pull on the left, and some useful reversals.

 

E.g. the Cotswold morris tune - Cuckoo's Nest, Sherborne version. I play it almost all on the G row. I will cross to the left hand to use the low D and E on the outside row when needed. And use the push E on the outside row of right hand sometimes to maintain Em chord direction.

 

[Leah Velleman]

 

1 hour ago, hjcjones said:

Here's the Presbyterian Hornpipe played in Em on a 31-button G/D. The last four bars of the B part should go down if you play it as written, but I've shifted them up an octave to keep it on the right hand (all bar one low E which is played on the left). It does involve playing across all three rows (and not just for the accidentals) and uses reversals to avoid clumsy bellows changes, and it does drop onto the left hand for a few other notes besides the one I mentioned. Perhaps this is what you mean by "fancy fingerings", but they're fairly straightforward once you get used to them, and may also be useful when playing in G. No chopping needed.

 

So, yeah, this is a good example of the sort of thing I'm talking about. This sounds like an arrangement I could learn to play — you're right that it's not especially "fancy" in that sense. But judging by your description, I definitely couldn't improvise this style of harmony to this tune — I'd need to work out ahead of time where the reversals and surprise left-hand notes were necessary in order to make everything fit. 

 

Whereas in easier keys (let's say G, D, or Am on a G/D), I can play a new tune by ear, bang out some chords, and have the left-hand notes I want available in the direction my right hand is already going.

 

So I'm wondering, is that just kind of how it goes, and Em is a key that requires ahead-of-time arranging and memorizing for anyone who isn't a virtuoso? (Which would make sense — it's not like every key is going to be as easy as G.) Or is banging along by ear in Em something that regular people can get the hang of — and if so, what helped you get there? 

[David Barnert]

Forgive me... As a non-Anglo player reading this thread. I see the word “reversals” in several of the posts, and I’ve never come across it before in the context of concertinas (I play the Hayden Duet). So what does “reversals” mean when talking about playing the Anglo concertina?

[Steve Schulteis]

47 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

Forgive me... As a non-Anglo player reading this thread. I see the word “reversals” in several of the posts, and I’ve never come across it before in the context of concertinas (I play the Hayden Duet). So what does “reversals” mean when talking about playing the Anglo concertina?

 

It's referring to finding the same note with the opposite bellows direction. Unlike English or duet layouts where it's the same button, on Anglo it's always in some other place, if it exists at all. The third row on a 30-button contains a couple buttons dedicated to these "reversals", but they can also be found across the other two rows as well.

[David Barnert]

3 hours ago, Steve Schulteis said:

It's referring to finding the same note with the opposite bellows direction...

 

Thanks. Still somewhat puzzled...

 

The same note as the previous note (ie., two consecutive instances of the same note played with different buttons and bellows directions) or playing a note in the melody using a different (ie., non-intuitive) button/bellows direction?

[hjcjones]

5 hours ago, Leah Velleman said:

Whereas in easier keys (let's say G, D, or Am on a G/D), I can play a new tune by ear, bang out some chords, and have the left-hand notes I want available in the direction my right hand is already going.

 

G D and Am are only easier because you've become familiar with them through playing a lot. It didn't happen overnight.  Play more in Em and it will come.  Playing in a new key is an exploration. As you play more you start to find the alternative fingerings and different ways of playing the chords, and then you will be able to busk tunes and find the notes and chords you want. 

 

That arrangement wasn't improvised and it took time to work out, but it started with me playing the tune by ear and "banging out the chords", and then going from there. 

 

You should find most of the left hand notes in the direction you want. Most of the useful chords in Em can be played in both directions, apart from C major, and most of the notes you need on the right hand can also be found in both directions.  If it's not working for you in one direction, try the other.

 

You asked for a favourite trick: one of mine (and it applies to playing in any key) is to let the choice of left-hand chords dictate the bellows direction and then find the right-hand fingerings to match that, rather than work out the melody on the right and then try to fit the chords and bass runs to the bellows direction that imposes. 

[hjcjones]

4 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

 

Thanks. Still somewhat puzzled...

It's simply that most (but not all) notes are duplicated, but on different buttons.  They're not necessarily less intuitive, especially once you've become familiar with the keyboard and aren't restricted to playing strictly up and down the rows.

 

Have a look at https://anglopiano.com/, pick a few different notes and see where they appear in different places on the keyboard and in different directions.

 

What this means in practice is that there may be two or even more ways of fingering a phrase by choosing the other direction, and this will use different buttons which may (or may not) be easier. On anglo there are always several ways to skin the same musical cat.

[Steve Schulteis]

18 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

Thanks. Still somewhat puzzled...

 

The same note as the previous note (ie., two consecutive instances of the same note played with different buttons and bellows directions) or playing a note in the melody using a different (ie., non-intuitive) button/bellows direction?

 

The latter.

 

3 minutes ago, hjcjones said:

What this means in practice is that there may be two or even more ways of fingering a phrase by choosing the other direction, and this will use different buttons which may (or may not) be easier. On anglo there are always several ways to skin the same musical cat.

 

For example, on a C/G, playing "defg" along the C row would involve switching bellows direction for every note. But you might choose to use the pull e on the left hand and the pull g in the third row to play the whole phrase on the pull instead.

[Jody Kruskal]

Good suggestions all. I especially agree with Mr. Jones saying

 

"You asked for a favourite trick: one of mine (and it applies to playing in any key) is to let the choice of left-hand chords dictate the bellows direction and then find the right-hand fingerings to match that, rather than work out the melody on the right and then try to fit the chords and bass runs to the bellows direction that imposes. "

 

Right. The chords dictate the direction and the melody buttons follow that. 

[Ryan Galamb]

If you have a Wheatstone 30 button C/G, don't forget about the 2nd button on the top row of the right hand (the A/G button.) If you have that button, the main annoying notes will be F# (pull only) and the E (push only.)

 

After getting a feel for the scale on push/pull, you may even end up considering Em one of your "good" keys.

 

If you have a Jeffries, then Em may always hurt a bit. Your best bet is probably to switch octaves when you can't get everything in the same direction (ie, what Jody said.)