Soprano English keyboard layout

[Alx]

Hello Concertina experts...

I have been playing a Wheatstone English concertina for many years. Mine is an extended treble, 56 key. So I am very familiar with the layout of the keyboards.

What I would like to know is: Does an English Soprano concertina have the same layout (minus some of the lower keys)? Are the "on the line" notes on the left hand side?

I am curious because Wakker concertinas website offers a Soprano and says that the layout is "identical to a tenor english (minus the top 6 notes), but sounding one octave higher." But by sounding an octave higher that would put middle C on the right hand side.

What is the conventional layout of a Wheatstone Soprano?

[genepinefield]

Hi, As I understand it, Soprano = Treble.
This document on range is helpful by Mr.Geoffrey Crabb,  English_Ranges.doc

This document on key-layout is helpful  by Mr.Geoffrey Crabb,  English Explanations.doc

 

Edited October 13, 2024 by genepinefield

[Alx]

Thanks genepinefield that's interesting but I can't see anything about Soprano (aka Piccolo).

This is the type of concertina I am interested in: https://www.wakker-concertinas.com/E-4.htm

The website information is not very easy to understand.

My main interest is does this type of English concertina have middle C (a note on the line of the stave) on the conventional, left hand side? Mr. Wakker's description seems to suggest that it would be on the right hand side by sounding one octave higher than a tennor.

[Little John]

1 hour ago, Alx said:

This is the type of concertina I am interested in: https://www.wakker-concertinas.com/E-4.htm

 

The information sheet this links to has a contact button at the bottom. Why not tap on it and ask Wakker?

 

1 hour ago, Alx said:

The website information is not very easy to understand.

 

I don't see the difficulty. You've quoted the relevant bit: "identical to a tenor ... but sounding an octave higher". This forum doesn't seem to be in complete agreement about what defines a tenor, but the two competing definitions both have middle C on the left. So the soprano will have middle C (as it sounds) on the right.

 

I assume the soprano is intended to be treated as a transposing instrument (if you're playing from music); that is, middle C as written will sound an octave higher. In which case middle C will mentally be on the left. Indeed, I can't see the point of a soprano unless you treat it as a transposing instrument. In terms of the actual note pitches it goes no higher than a standard 48 button treble. It just lacks the six buttons below middle C.

[Alx]

Thanks Little John. I think you're right. The Soprano English has the same layout as a 48 button English but without the lowest 6 notes. So it loses G, G#, A, Ab, B and Bb. That would make the lowest note C (middle c), and on the left side.

[d.elliott]

Personally, I have never heard of a Soprano Concertina, despite many years of concertina band play. Nor have I seen one in any Wheatstone or Lachenal Price list or catalogue. I wonder if tis is a model introduced by Wim Wakker to fill a perceived gap in the playing range. From the Wim's description it sounds like piccolo with some notes removed at the top and half an octave added at the bottom. My own piccolo is a standard piccolo but omitting the low G and A and their accidentals. Other than in tuning I have never actually had to sound the upper octave. 

[Leonard]

In that thread of May 2007 "the different types of English" which Genepinefield refers to Geoffrey Crabb said:

".....

Just to confuse things a bit more, the 56 Treble, when it appeared, was originally referred to as 'Soprano' to distiguish it from the 48 Treble.

......"

[Leonard]

But this is not the definition Wim Wakker uses for his "Soprano".

From https://www.concertinaconnection.com/wakker english.htm :

 

Model W-E4
The W-E4 is a 42 key soprano model, measuring only 14 cm/5.59" across. The layout is identical to a tenor english (minus the top 6 notes), but sounding one octave higher.The sound is bright.

Standard configuration W-E4:
 ....
 - 42 key soprano, from middle C to C.
 ....

But OP's question was not in the first place about the Soprano definition. 

His concrete question was: 

Are the "on the line" notes on the left hand side?

 

A (extended) treble has the 'on-the-line' notes on the left.

A tenor has the 'on-the-line' notes on the right.

So a tenor sounding a octave higher has the 'on-the-line' notes on the left, just like a treble. 

Am I right?

[John Wild]

38 minutes ago, Leonard said:

A (extended) treble has the 'on-the-line' notes on the left.

A tenor has the 'on-the-line' notes on the right.

So a tenor sounding a octave higher has the 'on-the-line' notes on the left, just like a treble. 

Am I right?

My 48-button tenor has middle C on the left as does a treble. The lowest note, C one octave below middle C, is on the right.

[Alx]

Would I be correct in thinking that all English Concertinas have the on-the-line notes on the left? This would be regardless of whether the instrument is a treble, tenor, tenor-treble or baritone. 

[Geoffrey Crabb]

48b Treble, Soprano & Piccolo Tinas.doc

On 10/14/2024 at 3:34 PM, Alx said:

Would I be correct in thinking that all English Concertinas have the on-the-line notes on the left? This would be regardless of whether the instrument is a treble, tenor, tenor-treble or baritone. 

Hi Alx, unfortunately, the answer is no. There are various reasons why this should be and I will try to offer an explanation soon.

In the meantime, the attached, comparing Crabb built Treble, Soprano and Piccolo English instruments, may be useful  to you and others.

 

48b Treble, Soprano & Piccolo Tinas.doc

 

Edited November 18, 2024 by Geoffrey Crabb
Previous attachment Emended

[seanc]

On 10/14/2024 at 10:34 AM, Alx said:

Would I be correct in thinking that all English Concertinas have the on-the-line notes on the left? This would be regardless of whether the instrument is a treble, tenor, tenor-treble or baritone. 

 

ALX...

if a read your question correctly.. All Es would be on one side?

 

That answer would be no. If you think about it (on a treble cleff) the E on the first line (button  is on the left) then the E an oct above that (3rd space up treble cleff) button is on the right side.