Musicaljohn1 Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I have a crabb 48 key metal end concertina i had made specially for me by Harry Crabb over 25 yrs ago. I never really have been a concertina player and normally play a melodeon. Although the concertina has some sentimantal value I hardly ever play it so I am thinking of selling it. I have no idea of the value of this instrument now. I paid £125 new!I know it's well worth over £1,000 but I am unsure of the the next £500 to £1,000. Any help in valuing this instument would be apreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 John, I think we'll need a bit more information. With 48 buttons, I assume it is an English. Is it a treble? How many folds does it have? I think we can assume concert pitch and steel reeds. What is the condition? Do you have any photographs? Based on recent prices I've seen, a top of the line hexagonal (Model 22) Wheatstone English treble from the 1910 - 1925 period would likely sell in the region of GBP1500 to 1800. Where yours fits into this depends on the condition and the variables listed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Brook Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 (edited) If it's an anglo you are looking at several thousand pounds! John Kirkpatrick was informed by Colin Dipper a while ago that to replace his 40 key C/G anglo with a concertina of similar standard would cost GBP £6,000! Edited September 15, 2005 by Peter Brook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 (edited) On that subject, does anyone have an idea of the current price on a Dipper and/or a Dickinson Wheatstone anglo new? Edited September 15, 2005 by Paul Read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Groff Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 (edited) Hi all A nice model Crabb english from the 1970s ought to be worth at least as much as a comparable model Lachenal or Wheatstone in comparable condition. An exact appraisal is never possible without the instrument in hand to evaluate the MANY dimensions of its condition, playability, appearance, and tone, and would also have to reflect the fact that even the same concertina will have a different value in different geographic regions, or when sold by a professional (with a guarantee) vs. by a private seller. Yes, accurate information and a local service warranty do add value to an item for sale. An anglo with 48 keys (although possibly a bit heavy for most players) might be worth more as was noted above. A 48 key Crane duet might possibly be worth a bit less (to my customers, FWIW) since most duettists seem to be requesting larger instruments. FWIW, I just sold a lovely 1904 31 key Crabb C/G anglo (ME, BB) on consignment for $6000 US. It was a restoration (including superb Dipper bellows) that had a few years of playing on it but is still playing well and sounding great! I also have an earlier (probable) Crabb with Jeffries stamp, also a consignment, for $5500. And also recently sold a wrecked one (really a major restoration project) for $2000. So they aren't ALL 6K GBP. But to EXACTLY replace Mr. Kirkpatrick's prized 40 key instrument at today's labor costs would indeed be expensive and might take a while even were he given the special treatment he well deserves! It is great news that Geoff Crabb has made new Crabb concertinas recently and of course I'm hoping he will post his thoughts to this thread. Re: prices for Dippers, you can contact Colin and Rosalie for their estimates of delivery time and cost, but a better indication of their market value is the price they fetch when someone has one in hand that is actually for sale "now." However, their owners hate to sell them so this is rare. I remember that recently a c.net member offered her used County Clare for sale and collected offers up to around $6000 before deciding she would rather keep, overhaul, and play it than sell it for that much -- even though I suspect that amount is much, much more than the Dippers got for making it a decade ago. The special model Dippers made for sale through my shop (for which I have a waiting list that is currently full) sell for a good bit more than that. However, the "Groff's Music" price also includes the option to trade in other instruments previously purchased from me at 100% of their sale price, and a service guarantee from me that can be very useful for North American buyers. Paul Edited September 15, 2005 by Paul Groff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 On that subject, does anyone have an idea of the current price on a Dipper and/or a Dickinson Wheatstone anglo new?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Paul, I don't know how much a Dipper costs now, but the C. Wheatstone & Co. website,www.wheatstone.co.uk, lists the following range : ~ ANGLO-CHROMATIC SYSTEM CONCERTINAS ~ No. 1A Rosewood. 31 keys (with drone). Keys C&G to G&D. 7-fold bellows. £3,540 No. 2A Ebony. Aeola model. 31 keys (with drone). Keys C&G to G&D. 7-fold bellows. 6 1/2" Octagonal. £4,520 No. 3A Ebony. Aeola model. 40 keys. Keys C&G to G&D. 7-fold bellows. 6 3/4" Octagonal. £5,160 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I have a crabb 48 key metal end concertina i had made specially for me by Harry Crabb over 25 yrs ago. ... I paid £125 new!<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Musicaljohn, You know, I think it must be well over 25 years since you had it made, as I still have the quotation for that amount which Harry Crabb gave me for a 48-key octagonal English, with metal ends, in 1973 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicaljohn1 Posted September 16, 2005 Author Share Posted September 16, 2005 John, I think we'll need a bit more information. With 48 buttons, I assume it is an English. Is it a treble? How many folds does it have? I think we can assume concert pitch and steel reeds. What is the condition? Do you have any photographs? Based on recent prices I've seen, a top of the line hexagonal (Model 22) Wheatstone English treble from the 1910 - 1925 period would likely sell in the region of GBP1500 to 1800. Where yours fits into this depends on the condition and the variables listed above. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicaljohn1 Posted September 16, 2005 Author Share Posted September 16, 2005 John, I think we'll need a bit more information. With 48 buttons, I assume it is an English. Is it a treble? How many folds does it have? I think we can assume concert pitch and steel reeds. What is the condition? Do you have any photographs? Based on recent prices I've seen, a top of the line hexagonal (Model 22) Wheatstone English treble from the 1910 - 1925 period would likely sell in the region of GBP1500 to 1800. Where yours fits into this depends on the condition and the variables listed above. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is an English. It has six fold bellows. The concertina is in very good condition and has steal reads and is in concert pitch. There are a couple of reeds that could do with some attention. It was retuned by Colin Dipper about 5 yrs ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 A photo would still help. I believe Crabb had different quality instruments and the fretwork is simpler on the cheaper ones. Others would know more about this. If it is one of the better ones,, from your description, I would think that 1500 - 1800 is about the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 regardless of whether these instruments are "worth" these prices (cogent arguments have been made that in fact they are), facts are facts----the non-wealthy are being priced out of owning a concertina-reeded anglo. something will have to give somewhere, i predict.....perhaps players will desert the anglo for the english, though i can't believe that will be what happens. or, perhaps accordion-reeded but otherwise superbly made, and more affordable, concertinas will begin to lose their stigma. or perhaps enough new concertina-reed makers will get into the scene that prices and wait times will ease up a bit, but again, i'm not optimistic about that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 The figure I quoted is based on what I'm seeing on ebay. I also would say it is very dependent on what the instrument is really like. We still don't know this. Ebay prices, by their auction nature, must reflect 'market price' as this is what people will pay. If you want peace of mind, you buy from a repairer/dealer and have a level of warranty as noted by Paul Groff and pay a little more for it. It is no different with houses and cars. It may be unfair but in a market economy some people are priced out of the market. Perhaps you should complain to Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnrobinson Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 If this is an octagonal, 48 key, semi-professional English then it could be worth quite a lot. My one is quite the equal of any Lachenal or Wheatstone I have ever owned or even tried. I paid £90 for it in about 1970, a beautiful 'tina that would be very difficult to replace. Whilst they were making it for me I was impatient to get on so I bought a little 12 sided Edeophone with glass keys for £70, just to be going on with! I also traded in my Jeffries anglo (bought for £7 in Peckham, I never could master the pull push variety!) to offset the cost. Those were the days! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Where's Dr. Who when you need him? I'll take that Jeffries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart estell Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 (edited) regardless of whether these instruments are "worth" these prices (cogent arguments have been made that in fact they are), facts are facts----the non-wealthy are being priced out of owning a concertina-reeded anglo. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But in essence (and this is a well-rehearsed argument) it's no different from the fact that the non-wealthy are priced out of owning a really good piano or a really good violin. The bottom line is that a really excellent musical instrument, of any kind, costs an awful lot of money and is a massive commitment. Yes, £3-4000 (or £6000 in the example quoted for replacing John K's anglo) is, I would hazard a guess, an awful lot of money to most of us. But in the scheme of things, for an instrument of superlative quality, it really isn't a lot. By way of comparison, based on prices the last time I looked seriously (when I helped my mum buy her current instrument about 3 years ago) a truly playable piano under £5k is a rare thing these days (though something serviceable can be had for about £3k) - for something properly usable that will fit in a normal-sized house and can be played to a high standard without being a source of frustration, you'd be looking at probably at least £8 - 9k at a guess. A concert standard Steinway instrument will cost as much as, if not more than, your house (and is worth every penny). And I'm very grateful I don't play the violin. In many ways But to return to the point Ceemonster made - yes, I think ultimately accordion-reeded anglos must surely become more and more popular, unless demand becomes great enough to make large-scale production of concertina reeds economical. But I disagree with the notion that something will "have to give" regarding vintage anglo prices - as things stand there's a finite supply of these beasts. At least Steinway are still making pianos. (edited belatedly for typo) Edited September 21, 2005 by stuart estell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 Where's Dr. Who when you need him? I'll take that Jeffries!<{POST_SNAPBACK}> But everything is relative. Back when I was selling fully restored Lachenal Anglos for £30, and Jeffries for £100 (yes, really !), people thought they were outrageously expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 agreed, stuart on all counts----though, when i predicted that "something will have to give," i was not talking about vintage anglo prices. those are never coming down, in my view. i meant, in terms of options available to folks who want to play anglo, but wish to do so on beautiful-sounding, fast-action, yet halfway affordable, boxes. "something will have to give" referred not to decreased vintage prices, but the possibilities i see happening----such as, high-quality accordion-reeded boxes losing their stigma (and those boxes are not cheap. i'm not saying they're not worth their prices. i'm saying, they are not cheap.) if anglo continues its popularity trend among irish youngsters, (plus, there seems to be some increased interest among players outside of ireland)....................given prices & scarcity for vintage boxes, plus prices & wait lists for new ones.............."something will have to give"....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart estell Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 they are not cheap.) if anglo continues its popularity trend among irish youngsters, (plus, there seems to be some increased interest among players outside of ireland)....................given prices & scarcity for vintage boxes, plus prices & wait lists for new ones.............."something will have to give"....... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, I see what you mean now - I misunderstood where you were coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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