C/B on push vs pull on English concertina?

[Jerfish]

Hello all - I recently purchased what is feasibly an 1850’s Lachenel I believe based on a serial number in the 8000’s.  I am admittedly new to concertina overall and have been trying different things out and found this concertina at Liberty Bellows.  She has some cracks of significance on the end pieces but it doesn’t impact playing or anything like that, and the leathers need adjusted or replaced in a few places as they appear to have shrunk and aren’t always covering correctly, making for my novice nature some non ideal bellows direction swaps.

 

In playing around with it, I noticed The First “C” has a curious feature.  At first I thought it was way out of tune between the push and pull on the C, but came to realize it is a C on the push and a B on the pull.  Has anyone come across this or know the primary utility of why for an English concertina?  It makes for some tricky bellows changes on that C, but haven’t played some diatonic accordion it’s manageable in my mind.  It’s the only note note on the instrument that is like that, the next octave C is C on both directions.

 

I am debating sending her out for restoration vs getting the concertina maintenance manual and trying it myself, and seeing if that B can get the half step to be a C vs keeping it if there’s an advantage.

 

Here’s a YouTube short of me piecing something together:

https://youtube.com/shorts/0qMnmm0cFXc?si=-qa49szkXEZGhDnH

[David Barnert]

One possibility: It’s not unusual for a fractured reed to drop in pitch for a while, often by about a semitone, before ultimately becoming unplayable. The “pull” reed is the outward-facing one. Have a close look at it and see if you detect a fracture line.

[Bill N]

No additional insight on the push/pull issue, but thought you might me interested in the response I received on the "Dating a Lachenal" thread about the age of a similar, early concertina:

 

"Bill N,

I wish I could be a little more precise, but the best I can do for No 6915 is circa1860. Lachenal No. 7728 is shown in Wheatstone's records as having been sold by them to "Bagshaw" on 4 April 1863, and in the Wheatstone records is also Lachenal No 9641 sold to "Eules" on 28 July 1862."
 

[LesJessop]

Just another thought to add to David Barnert's suggestion. The brass reed-holder should have the value of the note stamped on it (on the top, beyond near the free end of the reed). If the holder is stamped B then you know that somebody has put the wrong reed in the instrument. If it is stamped C then you know there is something wrong with the reed.

[Jerfish]

2 hours ago, Bill N said:

No additional insight on the push/pull issue, but thought you might me interested in the response I received on the "Dating a Lachenal" thread about the age of a similar, early concertina:

 

"Bill N,

I wish I could be a little more precise, but the best I can do for No 6915 is circa1860. Lachenal No. 7728 is shown in Wheatstone's records as having been sold by them to "Bagshaw" on 4 April 1863, and in the Wheatstone records is also Lachenal No 9641 sold to "Eules" on 28 July 1862."
 

Maybe a smidge newer than I thought but not by much then!  Appreciate it

[Jerfish]

30 minutes ago, LesJessop said:

Just another thought to add to David Barnert's suggestion. The brass reed-holder should have the value of the note stamped on it (on the top, beyond near the free end of the reed). If the holder is stamped B then you know that somebody has put the wrong reed in the instrument. If it is stamped C then you know there is something wrong with the reed.

Time to get the screwdrivers out, I’ll take a look thank you for the suggestions!

[Stephen Chambers]

7 hours ago, Jerfish said:

Hello all - I recently purchased what is feasibly an 1850’s Lachenel I believe based on a serial number in the 8000’s.

 

Not at all feasible I'm afraid. Louis Lachenal only set up in his own right as a concertina manufacturer in August 1858, and didn't make instruments numbered in the 8000’s until 1861-62.

[Jerfish]

10 hours ago, David Barnert said:

One possibility: It’s not unusual for a fractured reed to drop in pitch for a while, often by about a semitone, before ultimately becoming unplayable. The “pull” reed is the outward-facing one. Have a close look at it and see if you detect a fracture line.

Took a look at it and it looks okay to me but experienced in this I am not!. It just seems to be tuned down I half step but I guess time will tell. 

 

of note that B is perfectly in Tune with the right hand B. Is there a chord maybe someone would want?  Maybe I’m just wishful thinking lol
 

 

Edited July 25, 2024 by Jerfish
Typo

[David Barnert]

5 hours ago, Jerfish said:

Took a look at it and it looks okay to me but experienced in this I am not!. It just seems to be tuned down I half step but I guess time will tell. 

 

of note that B is perfectly in Tune with the right hand B. Is there a chord maybe someone would want?  Maybe I’m just wishful thinking lo

 

Well, I don’t see a fracture either, but neither do I see scratch marks or a blob of solder that would suggest someone has tuned it since it was produced. The reed shoe is clearly labeled “C” so nobody swapped a B reed in where a C should be. I’m at a loss to explain it.

[Stephen Chambers]

It's not readily apparent (which is normal) but I quite expect the reed will break off if you give it a pluck/twang, or if you attempt to file it up to pitch, otherwise it will gradually go flatter, and flatter, until it breaks off of its own accord.

 

It needs replacing.

[Jerfish]

6 hours ago, Stephen Chambers said:

It's not readily apparent (which is normal) but I quite expect the reed will break off if you give it a pluck/twang, or if you attempt to file it up to pitch, otherwise it will gradually go flatter, and flatter, until it breaks off of its own accord.

 

It needs replacing.

Any good resources for a brass C Reed?

[David Barnert]

4 hours ago, Jerfish said:

Any good resources for a brass C Reed?

 

In the US, Bob Snope at the Squeezebox Garage or Greg Jowaisas might be able to help. In the UK, Mark Lloyd-Adey at Concertina-spares is the usual source, but his website currently says he’s taking some time off.

[fred v]

I like your playing style in the video. I also work the bellows like that to add emphasis tot he phrasing.

 

[Jerfish]

4 hours ago, fred v said:

I like your playing style in the video. I also work the bellows like that to add emphasis tot he phrasing.

 

Appreciate that!!  I messed around with diatonic button accordion 10 years ago for a year but didn’t keep with it and just intermittently revitalize it.

 

Concertina is a new thing over the last month. I’ve enjoyed it, even easier on the shoulders and portable-can kind of zone out on the porch during a storm.  I’ve been hopping a bit between Anglo, duet and English but I think I wanna focus a little bit more on the English and duet at the moment.