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Hearing Difficulties?pardon?


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I am an X Rock and Roller and ballroom dancer.I have played in bands for thirty or more years.

I'd say it was the years of going to (and performing in) Punk Clubs with no earplugs. 

I spent about 3 years playing in a very loud band band that relied heavily on guitar feedback, which is difficult to produce at low volumes, and when turned up has a terrible effect on your hearing. 

… habitually standing next to the bass bins at gigs.

Some of you have interesting backgrounds :)

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Some people are just lucky. So far I don't seem to be affected, although I don't hear bats like I used to in my 20s, so I suppose the top end is going.

I have survived full volume folk-rock practices in my living room, that made my ears ring until the next lunch time, and some very noisy DIY tools, but you can't assume that everyone has the same tolerance.

My wife's father and his brother worked side by side in the same factories. One lost a lot of his hearing, the other died from the effects of the dust. Niether had any symptoms of the other's complaint.

 

Part of hearing problems is to do with how the brain interprets the messages that it receives rather than the hearing organ itself. I find it more difficult to understand speech when in noisy environments such as parties than other people who cannot hear things that I can. I put that down to the brain rather than the ear.

 

My wife says that she cannot hear as fast as I can. That is why she doesn't like fast Irish music as she's only getting the first note in every bar. Some tunes are very monotonous if that's all you can hear!

 

Robin Madge

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Interesting topic about hearing loss. Mine seems pretty much intact. Does anyone know if different instruments can be more or less damaging to hearing? Would having lots of high harmonics be likely to be more damaging? Is volume the biggest factor? Length of exposure? How about concertinas? Under certain conditions one of the vintage concertinas I owned that had a loud, strident tone, could actually be painful for me to play. Part of the reason I sold it was a concern that it might eventually damage my hearing. I can play my Morse for long periods and not be bothered by it at all even though it's a pretty loud concertina.

 

I'm 51 and my hearing seems as good as it's ever been. As some of you know, I've been a pretty serious bicycle rider, including racing. At 45 I first noticed that I was slowing down and feeling more pain when riding. This alarmed me. Since then I've spent a lot of time researching how to slow or even reverse the decline. I now do shorter but harder, more intense rides. I do alot of short intense weight training (never more than 30 minute workouts) with kettlebells that's primarily strength-endurance training. I also do a lot of ACTIVE, not passive stretching. I eat a lot more quality protein, fruits & veggies and my fats are mostly quality fats (olive, flax, hemp, some saturated from milk, and EPA/DHA caps). I take supplments including DHEA, which is great stuff for me. (Don't bother with junk olive oil from the local supermarket, do a search on Bariani Olive Oil if you want real stuff.)

 

The end result so far? I feel as good as I ever have in my adult life and can ride with fast 20 something riders. It's been amazing how well it's worked. How does this relate to concertinas? I used to get some pain in my hands when I'd play a lot or when I worked hard with them. I'd even sometimes wake up with finger stiffness. It never happens anymore! My hands are perfect. I think it's a combination of the diet and swinging the k'bells, which is a very grip intensive sport. It seems to be working for me.

 

BTW, I'm seriously considering moving to an intentional community that grows all it's food organically. It's the next logical step. See http://www.dancingrabbit.org/index.php for a possibility. I'm at the perfect point in my life to radically change it (a serious mid-life crisis, obviously), so why not do something radical?

 

bruce boysen, sadly, still in NJ

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Thanks for your posting Bruce, I had to have a rest after reading it.

 

One of the things that I wondered was if concertina players had hearing problems and many have and we are only a few days into the discussion.I certainly listen very carefully to concertina playing and how players achieve certain things on their concertina.In many cases I listen to it over and over again and lets face it it is a high piched fairly shrill instrument.Reading the postings however most of us have other reasons for poor hearing like Mark with his chain saw etc.Many of us play in bands,we all love music in all forms so we are constantly listening to, or playing music. If you have a video and record anything and put the sound to how it was at the event,the noises are unbelievable.Even Bruce cycling around the streets with traffic noise sirens etc the noise is deafening.All this being said I have my suspicians about the ear infection mentioned in a previous posting,as I did think I had a problem in my right ear that is the worse now.Also exactly at the time of hearing loss my eyesight which was perfect ,deteriorated a bit almost overnight.

Finally I would just like to say that I am pleased I did the original posting,not only for your excellent replies, but it has just made me feel better discussing it.

 

I hope you had a lovely time Helen and you will tell us all about it.

Al

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For the moment, I have removed my "musician hat" and put on my "speech-language pathologist hat". First, I'll offer a couple of thoughts for Alan and Jim; then I'll follow with some thoughts about hearing loss, noise exposure, understanding women's voices, and a couple of other topics.

 

Alan, your thinking that noise exposure may be a factor in your hearing loss could be on-target. My understanding is that up to half of the hearing loss customarily attributed to presbycusis (hearing loss due to aging) is actually caused by noise exposure.

 

Jim, you are correct in suspecting that problems with understanding speech may involve more than hearing acuity (sensitivity). Such problems, including your reported problem with understanding speech in background noise may sometimes be due to an auditory processing disorder. Auditory processing refers to how sound is perceived, discriminated, and understood along the path from the inner ear to the cerbral cortex. Children with auditory processing disorders are sometimes mistakenly thought to have hearing problems or attention disorders. In the U.S., evaluation of auditory processing is considered to be within the scope of practice for audiology, and the number of audiologists familiar with these specialized procedures is continually increasing

 

Jim, from the perpsecive of a telephone company, the range of effective frequencies for speech intelligibility may indeed be 1000-3000 Hz. However, telephone companies historically have been interested in using inexpensive components in order to increase their profits. They found that most people can follow a phone conversation when a fairly narrow range of frequencies is transmitted. However, for some speech sounds, for example /s/ or /f/ or /th/, significant acoustic information is conveyed by frequencies up to at least 6.000 Hz.

 

Finding Professional Help:

In the U.S., audiologists are the professionals who specialize in hearing measurement; they can also prescribe hearing aids. A master's degree was formerly the entry level degree for clinical practice; the Au.D. (doctorate in audiology) or a Ph.D. is now required. Although some hearing aid dealers do hearing testing, they have far less training than an audiologist does.

 

If you want to have your hearing evaluated in the U.S., or if you are interested in specialized ear protection from noise exposure, it is highly preferable to find an audiologist who is certified by either the American Speeh-Language-Hearing Association (my professional organization): http://www.asha.org; or the American Academy of Audiology: http://www.audiology.org. Both web sites are excellent sources of information about hearing and hearing disorders.

 

Some Background on Hearing Loss:

There are two main types of hearing loss: conductive hearing loss and sensorineural hearing loss. It is possible to have both, i.e. a mixed hearing loss.

 

Conductive Hearing Loss

Conductive hearing loss, which is typically involves damage or limitation of movement to the tympanum (eardrum) or to the three bones in the middle ear (malleus, incus, and stapes) that transmit sound to the cochlea. The cochlea is a sort of snail shaped structure in the inner ear where acoustic energy is converted to nerve impulses. With a conductive hearing loss, one can expect to hear clearly when the affected frequencies are amplified.

 

Sensorineural Hearing Loss

Sensorineural hearing loss can result from damage to the hair cells inside the cochlea, or damage to the eighth cranial nerve. Each hair cell responds to a narrow range of frequencies (pitches). The causes of sensorineural hearing loss that concern most of us are aging and noise exposure. As we age, hair cells gradually die and cannot be replaced. At age 17 so, our hearing is at its best -- and from there it's a downward slide.

 

Hair cells are also damaged and lost as a result of noise exposure. With a sensorineural hearing loss, intelligibility of speech can be affected, and simply amplifying the affected frequencies may not be enough to restore the ability to understand speech clearly.

 

Another common characteristic of a sensorineural hearing loss is called recruitment. Recruitment is when louder sounds become uncomfortable, or even painful. So, a sensorineural hearing loss cam be a triple whammy: we lose the ability to hear softer sounds, intelligibility can be affected, and we can experience reduced tolerance of louder sounds.

 

More About Noise Exposure:

Risk of noise exposure depends on the intensity of sound, the duration of sound, and accumulation of damage over repeated exposure. Exposure to a brief burst of sound at high intensity is a hazard to hearing; however, sustained exposure at a somewhat lower intensity can cause just as much damage. If we are exposed to a burst of noise or to sustained noise and afterward we notice that our hearing is temporarily worse, we need to consider it a danger sign and protect our hearing in that environment. Damage from noise exposure is quite possible even before the noise intensity reaches levels sufficient to cause temporary hearing loss.

 

I have a mild hearing loss above about 4000 Hz (4000 cycles per second) and my left ear is more affected than my right. I think my hearing loss is largely noise induced, but partly conductive due to childhood ear infections. For years I have carried earplugs with me and I do not hesitate to use them in loud environments. If I forget them I may get an unpleasnt reminder: very loud sounds now cause pain in my left ear.

 

It is quite reasonable that even the clatter of dishes could be painful, as mentioned in a previous posting. Unfortunately I cannot yet use ear pain as an excuse to avoid washing dishes!

 

There are ear plugs for musicians that are designed to attenuate sound evenly across the audible range of frequencies. For extremely noisy situations (operating loud machinery, driving an ambulance) over the counter ear plugs may not be effective, although they will help to some extent.

 

Understanding Women's Voices:

The pattern of one's hearing loss may differentially affect the ability to understand women's and children's voices. Men and women with a sensorineural hearing loss affecting higher frequencies may report more difficulty understanding women's voices than men's voices.

 

Acoustically, speech sounds have a fundamental frequency (the frequency at which the vocal folds vibrate) and several harmonic bands (formants) that extend into higher frequencies. The fundamental frequency of the female voice is typically about an octave higher than the fundamental frequency of the male voice. The harmonic bands(formants) that carry the acoustic information to distinguish speech sounds (phonemes) are also typically higher for the female voice, at least in part due to a smaller vocal tract.

 

Wierd Hearing Science: Diplycusis

Diplycusis is another hearing condition of interest to musicians. I have a small amount of it. Diplucusis means that one ear perceives a particular sound source to be at a higher pitch than the other ear does. Usually, the brain reconciles the difference and we are not likely to notice. However, it is something I have to compensate for when tuning instruments.

 

My right ear hears a given tone at a slightly higher pitch than my left ear does. At the same time, I have very good pitch discrimination. I have learned that if I am tuning a stringed instrument by ear, I must listen to the reference pitches (e.g. tuner, pitchfork, keyboard) and the instrument with the same ear throughout the tuning process. Otherwise, the result will sound a little "off" to me.

Edited by Brian Humphrey
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Also exactly at the time of hearing loss my eyesight which was perfect, deteriorated a bit almost overnight.

The timing didn't coincide with taking a prescription medicine, did it?

 

There was a period when I was suffering both difficulty focussing my eyes and clumsiness, i.e., bumping into things, even when I was being especially careful not to. At the time, I was taking medication for an intestinal problem, but I didn't associate the two until I stopped taking the medication, and the vision problem and clumsiness (and at least one other problem) practically disappeared overnight. I suspect the medication had an undocumented neurological effect. (I reported this to my doctor, who refused to believe it, because it wasn't a side effect listed on the drug company's insert with the medication. :angry:)

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Jim, you are correct in suspecting that problems with understanding speech may involve more than hearing acuity (sensitivity). Such problems, including your reported problem with understanding speech in background noise may sometimes be due to an auditory processing disorder. Auditory processing refers to how sound is perceived, discriminated, and understood along the path from the inner ear to the cerbral cortex. Children with auditory processing disorders are sometimes mistakenly thought to have hearing problems or attention disorders.

"Disorder"? Hot button time!

 

I am increasingly disturbed by the use of words like "disorder" and "defect" to describe "differences". Probably the most disturbing example I've encountered recently was the description of people with an immunity to AIDS as "suffering" from a "genetic defect". If immunity to disease is a defect, I want to be defective!

 

Relevance to the matter at hand: Some "disorders" may truly be such, with adverse consequences and no accompanying advantages. But my own speech-background noise "disorder" seems to be accompanied by unusual sensitivity to sounds that others don't notice. On balance, is this bad? It depends greatly on the situation. Even "attention deficit disorder" may sometimes be a "symptom" of an unusual sensitivity to details that someone else considers irrelevant. Perhaps a "defect" in a standard classroom or office situation, but a survival plus when camping in the wilderness or working as a spy. Imagine Lewis and Clark being rejected as explorers because their child psychologist had diagnosed them as having ADD. Or James Bond being refused employment in Her Majesty's service because he had difficulty concentrating on writing reports! :ph34r:

 

Is it only a matter of time until the lot of us are "diagnosed" as having "concertina appreciation disorder"? :unsure:

Edited by JimLucas
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The other factor to take into consideration is that many people do not realise they have a hearing problem.

I used to work in a big open plan office and with people talking,phones ringing,tannoys,typewriters (we are going back a bit) etc. to do your work you have to focus on what you are doing and give it your full concentration.Jim Besser will understand this having working in a news paper office.You take this home with you and many an argument can insue due to not hearing your other half talking when you are concentrating on something.

 

Doctor I am a bit concerned about my wife`s hearing.

Go home and do a little hearing test from varying distances and let me have the result.

From the doorway he asks"Darling would you like a nice cup of tea?

No answer.

From halfway across the room,"Darling would you like a nice cup of tea?"

No answer

Next to her chair "Darling would you like a nice cup off tea"

 

"FOR THE THIRD TIME, NO I DO NOT WANT A CUP OF TEA" !!

 

Al :D

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Jim, you are correct in suspecting that problems with understanding speech may involve more than hearing acuity (sensitivity). Such problems, including your reported problem with understanding speech in background noise may sometimes be due to an auditory processing disorder...

"Disorder"? Hot button time!

 

I am increasingly disturbed by the use of words like "disorder" and "defect" to describe "differences"...

 

I won't get into the "disorder" argument, but I wanted to chime in as another person who has an auditory processing "anomaly". I too find it quite difficult to understand conversation at loud parties or in pubs -- I can hear all the stuff but I can't separate and track the conversations easily. My hearing test was absolutely normal. The audiologist didn't say "disorder" but instead simply mentioned it was known that some people had a much harder time tracking parts of a chaotic sound spectrum than others. I happen to think I just hear everything, and can't ignore the useless stuff, which is trouble for conversation, but works great for music because I am constantly finding that I hear subtlties and nuances that escape most people. I'm happy to be this way.

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