‘Nature Boy’ on Wheatstone Baritone Treble English Concertina

[vpo]

 

[vpo]

I’d actually appreciate it if anyone can advise on a simple way to get better quality audio onto the videos..

I’m recording these using just the iPad video camera app. I recently obtained a Steinberg UR12 audio interface, Apple camera adapter cable etc to use with Myers Feather 2 twin microphones and following the recommended method to get the iPad to record via the iPad video. So far no luck, so I’m wondering if obtaining a condenser microphone might help me succeed. If anyone can suggest a route which they’ve had success with (without using GarageBand or similar and having to go through a complicated procedure to edit the audio into the video),  I’d be very grateful to hear it.

Edited November 27, 2023 by vpo

[alex_holden]

I use a similar setup: two phantom-powered condenser mics plugged into a Steinberg UR22mkII, plugged into an Apple USB camera to Lightning adapter, plugged into an iPhone SE, recording video using the standard Apple camera app (I've also tried it with an iPad). It is necessary to use an external micro USB power supply with the Steinberg; you can't power it directly from the phone.

 

I'm not familiar with the Myers Feather 2. Does it internally mix the two mics down to a single channel? It looks like the UR12 is configured for one mic and an electric guitar pickup, not two mics as a stereo pair. I have a suspicion that if you use the Apple camera app, it might record the audio in stereo with the mic channel in one ear and the guitar channel in the other ear. You might be able to get around that by using Steinberg's IOS app, but I think it might be audio only, not video+audio. You could also fix it in post using video editing software.

 

Does the setup work as an audio interface with something like Audacity if you plug it into a computer instead of an iPad?

[vpo]

1 hour ago, alex_holden said:

I use a similar setup: two phantom-powered condenser mics plugged into a Steinberg UR22mkII, plugged into an Apple USB camera to Lightning adapter, plugged into an iPhone SE, recording video using the standard Apple camera app (I've also tried it with an iPad). It is necessary to use an external micro USB power supply with the Steinberg; you can't power it directly from the phone.

 

I'm not familiar with the Myers Feather 2. Does it internally mix the two mics down to a single channel? It looks like the UR12 is configured for one mic and an electric guitar pickup, not two mics as a stereo pair. I have a suspicion that if you use the Apple camera app, it might record the audio in stereo with the mic channel in one ear and the guitar channel in the other ear. You might be able to get around that by using Steinberg's IOS app, but I think it might be audio only, not video+audio. You could also fix it in post using video editing software.

 

Does the setup work as an audio interface with something like Audacity if you plug it into a computer instead of an iPad?

Thanks Alex.. I’d read your previous post from way back about this..

I am powering the setup externally as you suggest. 
I think you’re right about the Steinberg software being Audio only.

The Feather 2 mics have their own power ( so don’t need phantom power) and a single guitar type jack plug so I have that plugged  into the 2nd (guitar) channel. Without any tech knowledge, I’d assumed since they have that plug, they’d work as they do in a normal amp, I assume, using a single channel.

Think maybe I’ll ask Father Christmas for a phantom powered mic to plug into channel 1 and give that a go.

The current setup requires the concertina to be v close to the iPad to be get half decent sound quality which means the viewer may never see my entirety ( which some may consider a blessing!).

I don’t have a computer any more,  just iPad & iphone X.. (no luck with that either.)

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by vpo

[alex_holden]

16 minutes ago, vpo said:

Thanks Alex.. I’d read your previous post from way back about this..

I am powering the setup externally as you suggest. 
I think you’re right about the Steinberg software being Audio only.

The Feather 2 mics have their own power ( so don’t need phantom power) and a single guitar type jack plug so I have that plugged  into the 2nd (guitar) channel. Without any tech knowledge, I’d assumed since they have that plug, they’d work as they do in a normal amp.

Think maybe I’ll ask Father Christmas for a phantom powered mic to plug into channel 1 and give that a go.

The current setup requires the concertina to be v close to the iPad to be get half decent sound quality which means the viewer may never see my entirety ( which some may consider a blessing!).

I don’t have a computer any more,  just iPad & iphone X.. (no luck with that either.)

 

 

I should caveat that I don't consider myself an expert in audio recording gear. I'm not certain, but I think there might be a problem with the guitar channel on the UR12 being high impedance (i.e. meant for an electric guitar pickup) rather than line level. Presumably the Feather battery-powered preamp puts out an unbalanced line level signal, similar to something like an electronic keyboard. The mic input is also meant for connecting directly to a dynamic or condenser mic with a balanced XLR cable rather than something that outputs a line level signal. The UR22mkII has two line level input jacks and a switch to put one of them in high impedance mode, but the UR12 doesn't seem to have that feature.

 

You don't necessarily have to get a condenser mic. Some people prefer dynamic mics, like the ubiquitous Shure SM57. My understanding is condenser mics are more sensitive and have a more natural sound, but they are quite delicate and are more prone to picking up background noise.

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I am lucky to have my camera vlhich has stereo microphones on its video feature and coupled with hd video; provided does a very clear audio for musical sound. All I then do in editing is take into software then sometimes isolate the audio track separately .. to maybe reduce noise or to add mild reverb to lift the sound if needed, the audio is then put back with the video once more, and a clearer sound results.

I use NERO video editing software on my computer which gives several options for video and audio. Finally for audio I use a separate audio "music clean go" generic audio software. Sometimes it is possible to reduce noise or clicks of sound accidentally made when moving, in performance, by analyser to take down offending frequency.. So you can achieve virtually any high quality result with very precise edit or cuts being possible.

Edited November 27, 2023 by SIMON GABRIELOW

[vpo]

2 hours ago, alex_holden said:

 

I should caveat that I don't consider myself an expert in audio recording gear. I'm not certain, but I think there might be a problem with the guitar channel on the UR12 being high impedance (i.e. meant for an electric guitar pickup) rather than line level. Presumably the Feather battery-powered preamp puts out an unbalanced line level signal, similar to something like an electronic keyboard. The mic input is also meant for connecting directly to a dynamic or condenser mic with a balanced XLR cable rather than something that outputs a line level signal. The UR22mkII has two line level input jacks and a switch to put one of them in high impedance mode, but the UR12 doesn't seem to have that feature.

 

You don't necessarily have to get a condenser mic. Some people prefer dynamic mics, like the ubiquitous Shure SM57. My understanding is condenser mics are more sensitive and have a more natural sound, but they are quite delicate and are more prone to picking up background noise.

 

Thanks again Alex… for explaining all that, none of which I had any understanding of previously.
Interesting what you say about the UR22 impedance switch which yes the UR12 doesn’t have. Sounds like a mic of some sort is my way forward.

Edited November 27, 2023 by vpo

[vpo]

2 hours ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

I am lucky to have my camera vlhich has stereo microphones on its video feature and coupled with hd video; provided does a very clear audio for musical sound. All I then do in editing is take into software then sometimes isolate the audio track separately .. to maybe reduce noise or to add mild reverb to lift the sound if needed, the audio is then put back with the video once more, and a clearer sound results.

I use NERO video editing software on my computer which gives several options for video and audio. Finally for audio I use a separate audio "music clean go" generic audio software. Sometimes it is possible to reduce noise or clicks of sound accidentally made when moving, in performance, by analyser to take down offending frequency.. So you can achieve virtually any high quality result with very precise edit or cuts being possible.

Thanks also Simon. Yes I’m trying to avoid more expensive equipment as I really want to keep everything v simple as don’t have the interest to learn how to use all the software. But interesting to see how you’re producing good results. Thanks.

[Roger Hare]

15 hours ago, vpo said:

...But interesting to see how you’re producing good results...

Interesting indeed - very! As is the rest of this thread.

 

I have 'problems' with many video/sound clips (not just music-related clips). The volume is often way too low. What I'm picking up here is that this may be due to the difference between just using a 'phone (low volume?), and using a more complicated set-up with decent dedicated kit such as external microphones, etc. (acceptable volume?).

 

Is that 'right'?

Edited November 28, 2023 by Roger Hare

[alex_holden]

2 hours ago, Roger Hare said:

Interesting indeed - very! As is the rest of this thread.

 

I have 'problems' with many video/sound clips (not just music-related clips). The volume is often way too low. What I'm picking up here is that this may be due to the difference between just using a 'phone (low volume?), and using a more complicated set-up with decent dedicated kit such as external microphones, etc. (acceptable volume?).

 

Is that 'right'?

 

Not exactly. A more complicated external mic setup gives you more control, the mic(s) might be better quality, and if you're recording a video it lets you place the mic(s) close to the instrument while placing camera lens far enough away to show a wide view instead of a closeup. One of the problems I had with recording video on my phone was that its automatic gain control would record disconcerting jumps in volume when the player goes between quiet and loud passages, whereas with the external mics I need to manually control the gain and it's easy to get it wrong and either record it too quiet or get clipping in the loud bits. It's a bit like taking pictures on a phone vs a professional DSLR: the pro kit has greater potential in skilled hands but it's also more expensive and more difficult/complicated to use.

[Roger Hare]

23 minutes ago, alex_holden said:

Not exactly etc...

Thanks! That gives me a much better qualitative understanding of what's happening. I did wonder about the relevance of a comparison between a 'phone camera and a 'proper' camera...🙂

 

19 hours ago, vpo said:

...don’t have the interest to learn how to use all the software....

Me too. Never really been tempted to try producing video clips myself...🙂

 

Thanks again!

[vpo]

4 hours ago, Roger Hare said:

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by vpo
Delete

[alex_holden]

48 minutes ago, Roger Hare said:

Thanks! That gives me a much better qualitative understanding of what's happening. I did wonder about the relevance of a comparison between a 'phone camera and a 'proper' camera...🙂

 

Not exactly a direct comparison, but this was recorded on my first generation iPhone SE's built in mic:

 

Whereas this was recorded on the more complicated setup with a pair of condenser mics:

 

I did do a small amount of work in post to adjust the levels and the stereo separation and add a tiny amount of reverb.

 

And this was recorded on John's more recent iPhone (can't remember which model), which seems to have a better internal mic than mine:

 

[vpo]

4 minutes ago, alex_holden said:

 

Not exactly a direct comparison, but this was recorded on my first generation iPhone SE's built in mic:

 

Whereas this was recorded on the more complicated setup with a pair of condenser mics:

 

I did do a small amount of work in post to adjust the levels and the stereo separation and add a tiny amount of reverb.

 

And this was recorded on John's more recent iPhone (can't remember which model), which seems to have a better internal mic than mine:

 

Interesting.. Yes middle brighter perhaps, but the last one quite acceptable to my ear.. and done just with internal mic.

[Roger Hare]

21 hours ago, alex_holden said:

Not exactly a direct comparison, but this was recorded on my first generation iPhone SE's built in mic:

  .

And this was recorded on John's more recent iPhone (can't remember which model), which seems to have a better internal mic than mine:

  .

All of that is extremely helpful! Thank you - I can get a feel for the different sound quality off those recordings.

 

The final clip is magic - apart from the quality of the sound, an added bonus is that I now know I'm not making a complete hash of The Burning of the Piper's Hut...🙂

Edited November 29, 2023 by Roger Hare

[vpo]

So.. I seem to have cracked it.. Total outlay about £110…. for the Steinberg UR12 Audio interface (£35 opened but unused eBay), lightning camera adapter (£12) and a wee battery pack for mobility and no need for usb hub (£17) both from Amazon, Marantz condenser Mic, stand and cable (£45 new eBay) I already had headphones. Got it all to work using the ipad camera… one does need to reconnect the lightning cable after reselecting video every time one leaves the camera to playback the video, otherwise on the next take the recording will be without audio. There’s a Utube video about how to connect iPhone camera to Scarlatti interface which covers this in detail. (same for Steinberg). Have yet to really compare the results with those using iPhone mic, but my impression is it will be cleaner. So a good enough, relatively inexpensive and straightforward result for me, I think. Time will tell. Undoubtedly a second mic and UR22 with 2 mic inputs would produce better results. Only downside is the fiddling around reconnecting power cable.

 

[alex_holden]

6 hours ago, vpo said:

So.. I seem to have cracked it.. Total outlay about £110…. for the Steinberg UR12 Audio interface (£35 opened but unused eBay), lightning camera adapter (£12) and a wee battery pack for mobility and no need for usb hub (£17) both from Amazon, Marantz condenser Mic, stand and cable (£45 new eBay) I already had headphones. Got it all to work using the ipad camera… one does need to reconnect the lightning cable after reselecting video every time one leaves the camera to playback the video, otherwise on the next take the recording will be without audio. There’s a Utube video about how to connect iPhone camera to Scarlatti interface which covers this in detail. (same for Steinberg). Have yet to really compare the results with those using iPhone mic, but my impression is it will be cleaner. So a good enough, relatively inexpensive and straightforward result for me, I think. Time will tell. Undoubtedly a second mic and UR22 with 2 mic inputs would produce better results. Only downside is the fiddling around reconnecting power cable.

 

Well done. I don't think I've experienced the problem with needing to reconnect the cable. The advantage of a mono setup is the simplicity: no need to mess around with positioning two mics a similar distance from the instrument and trying not to move around too much while playing (or mounting them directly on the ends of the instrument), adjusting the gain levels so they sound roughly the same volume, adjusting the amount of stereo separation in the mix, etc. The advantage of stereo is that if you get it right it sounds fuller and more immersive.

[Little John]

On 11/28/2023 at 8:55 AM, alex_holden said:

John's more recent iPhone (can't remember which model), ...

 

It's an iPhone 13 mini.

 

On 11/28/2023 at 8:55 AM, alex_holden said:

which seems to have a better internal mic than mine:

 

"mics", in fact, since it records in stereo. I don't know if earlier models do this. It's an option when recording video, but I seem to recall it is the default option.