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Folk Songs And Folk Song Roots


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I was at the San Diego Ren-Fair with the Moreton Bay Fig Morris Dancers last Sunday. I was amusing myself with a tune I know as "The Dreadnaught" when a lady pointed and called "He knows the tune!" They (she and her group of entertainers) knew it as a May song. I don't know what a May song is. I thought that the tune dated back to the 1850's or so. I guess it's a lot older than that.

 

There are probably a lot of songs like that, aren't there?

 

I was there almost all day, and not a soul questioned a concertina at a Ren-Fair. Disney seems to have back-dated concertinas to someplace centuries before their actual invention.

 

Much fun was had by many. I am so glad I took my concertina wherever I went. Almost everyone was friendly about it, and the only lady who didn't like it loved the "By the time I got back someone had broken into my car and left two more!" joke.

 

Russell Hedges

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I was amusing myself with a tune I know as "The Dreadnaught" when a lady pointed and called "He knows the tune!"  They (she and her group of entertainers) knew it as a May song.  I don't know what a May  song is.

As I understand the term, a "May song" is a song used to celebrate the coming of May... May Day with maypoles & dancing (not Soviet military parades or worker's solidarity speeches). Something like celebrating the coming of spring, but at a time of year when there's more life to see and celebrate than in mid March. :)

 

I thought that the tune dated back to the 1850's or so.  I guess it's a lot older than that.

If it's the song about the Atlantic packet ship, with a "Derry Down, Down, Down, Derry Down" chorus, the tune and the song format are definitely older. Carolyn Rabson's Songbook of the American Revolution contains "Four songs to the tune Derry Down", one of which, from 1775, was apparently titled "A New Song to an Old Tune". And if I understand her notes correctly, the tune was used in Charles Coffey's 1729 opera The Beggar's Wedding, but the composer is listed as "anonymous", so the implication seems to be that Coffey used an existing tune. (No time right now to dig deeper into that speculation.)

 

There are probably a lot of songs like that, aren't there?

Yes, though I doubt the "Derry Down" tune dates back to the Renaissance any more than concertinas do. ;)

 

It can work the other way, too. Many of what are now "folk" songs originated as popular stage numbers and/or published sheet music in the 18th, 19th, or even 20th century.

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This tune can be traced to the song, "King John and the Abbot of Canterbury" and dates to no later than 1729. Chappel maintains that it was current in the reign of Charles II, and the story line goes back to the 15th century. However, he does not trace the tune back, but it does smack of older times.

 

I am very curious as to the "May song" mentioned. I have a few May songs in my repertoire, and more in my library, but none, to my knowledge, to that tune. Can you get the words?

 

BTW, May Day in Britain is the coming of Summer. The seasons there are a bit different than those in the US. Thus, what to Americans is the Summer Solstice (first day of summer) is Midsummer; the Winter Solstice here is the first day of Winter, but on the continent, it is Midwinter. Same for the Equinoxes -- Tom

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I can try to get the words to the May song. I don't know the people involved personally, but I can find out who they are and ask for the words. They mentioned that they had added a verse of their own, true to folk music tradition.

 

The words I have to "The Dreadnaught" don't have a "Derry Down Down Down Derry Down". Was that meant literally? The last line of most verses in the version I have is "Bound away in the Dreadnaught to the westward we go."

 

Russell Hedges

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The words I have to "The Dreadnaught" don't have a "Derry Down Down Down Derry Down".  Was that meant literally?  The last line of most verses in the version I have is "Bound away in the Dreadnaught to the westward we go."

Yes, literally. The "Derry Down..." bit follows what you consider the last line. I learned it from Louis Killen, almost the same as "THE DREADNAUGHT (b )" on p. 346 of my copy of Hugill's "Shanties from the Seven Seas".

 

Interestingly, Hugill doesn't seem to give a tune to his "THE 'DREADNAUGHT' (a)", which has the note "Tune same as The Flash Frigate". That's apparently a different tune, as for (b ) he says, "Here is the tune of The Dom Pedero joined to the words of The Dreadnaught." But he doesn't seem to actually give a tune to The Flash Frigate anywhere. Unless it's the same as that given for "THE LIVERPOOL PACKET (a)", which is apparently a version of "The Dreadnaught".

 

So now I'm wondering what tune you use. Might not be "Derry Down", at all.

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Forebitters, being the most travelled traditional songs, tend to have far more variants. Thus not all Dreadnaughts are the same. One of the three cited by Hugill has the "Derry Down" refrain.

 

The "Flash Frigate," (the "Fancy Frigate" in Palmer) is essentially the same as

"La Pique." This last song was included in the MacColl-Seeger collection, "The Singing Island" and also contains the "Derry Down" refrain.

 

"La Pique" was a "blood ship," and in one version, like Valdemort, is unnamed. Lloyd dates this song to about 1838. The "Dreadnaught" was not built until 1853, thus making "The Flash Frigate" the basis for "The Dreadnaught."

 

Some versions have a refrain of "She's a Liverpool packet, oh Lord, let her go."

Edited by Tom Hall
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