Andy Holder Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 I'm just in the process of selling a metal ended Lachenal Maccann and I can't seem to work out what metal the end is. It's obviously bright chrome on the outside but the inside is a dull silver colour. I assumed it would be brass but it doesn't look like the inside is plated. It's not steel as there isn't any rust and if you scratch the surface it's not yellow underneath. Any ideas what they were originally made of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_holden Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 They are commonly nickel silver (german silver), though that does tend to oxidise fairly quickly. A mirror bright surface would suggest it's either nickel plated or has been recently polished. If it was nickel plated I would expect to see plating on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 (edited) 38 minutes ago, alex_holden said: They are commonly nickel silver (german silver), though that does tend to oxidise fairly quickly. A mirror bright surface would suggest it's either nickel plated or has been recently polished. If it was nickel plated I would expect to see plating on both sides. Thank you Alex, very informative. Do you know if it's possible to get any? I just looked at your beautiful duets. Are they nickel silver? Edited September 6 by Andy Holder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Edgley Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Nickel silver is a blend of copper and nickel Most concertinas with metal ends are nickel silver. There is no silver in nickel silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_holden Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 hour ago, Andy Holder said: Thank you Alex, very informative. Do you know if it's possible to get any? I just looked at your beautiful duets. Are they nickel silver? In theory yes, but I don't currently have a source because the metal supplier I used in the past doesn't stock it any more. It seems to be much less commonly available than brass, aluminium, stainless steel, etc. Presumably it was easier to obtain in Victorian England. I have done a few instruments with unplated nickel silver ends; this is a recent example: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 That is beautiful Alex. Laser cut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted September 6 Author Share Posted September 6 59 minutes ago, Frank Edgley said: Nickel silver is a blend of copper and nickel Most concertinas with metal ends are nickel silver. There is no silver in nickel silver. Thank you Frank. I think I might struggle to find some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_holden Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 9 hours ago, Andy Holder said: That is beautiful Alex. Laser cut? No, I hand cut them with a fretsaw. That one also has some hand engraving on the boat. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 20 hours ago, Andy Holder said: It's obviously bright chrome on the outside but the inside is a dull silver colour. I assumed it would be brass but it doesn't look like the inside is plated. Both sides were plated but as was customary, only the outside would have been is polished prior to plating thus the dull finish on the back. Why nickel- silver? Easier to pierce and polish. Geoff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted September 7 Author Share Posted September 7 35 minutes ago, Geoffrey Crabb said: Both sides were plated but as was customary, only the outside would have been is polished prior to plating thus the dull finish on the back. Why nickel- silver? Easier to pierce and polish. Geoff. Thank you Geoff. Do you think there would be any disadvantage in using chrome plated brass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 Hi Andy, no disadvantage, we used brass for years for tops. The only advice really is, if possible, do the polishing before sending to the platers. If not possible, vet the plater, you want someone who is used to dealing with similar decorative items. From past experience, avoid any who only deal with replating, large solid items (car bumpers etc.) They tend be over exuberant with the polishing resulting in over thin areas compromising the strength of the tops. In worst cases polishing right through areas of the fretwork😒. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 Another piece of advice - go for bright nickel plate rather than chrome. Virtually all metal ended concertinas were nickel plated. It has a warm creamy colour. Chrome by contrast has a cold bluish colour which I find a bit brash on a musical instrument. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDF Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 23 hours ago, Andy Holder said: Thank you Alex, very informative. Do you know if it's possible to get any? I just looked at your beautiful duets. Are they nickel silver? In the past I have bought it from here. http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm regards David. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 31 minutes ago, DDF said: In the past I have bought it from here. http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm regards David. It would appear that BREXIT has caused difficulties with importation from the makers Mettal Schulz in Nûremberg . I have heard the paperwork is too difficult but I have been searching for a supplier of Nickel Silver sheet in various thicknesses in Europe. Whilst I can purchase directly the minimum order is 50kg for each size which is too much for me. If anyone knows of a wholesale supplier or if someone were to take this on as a business I am sure many small craft workers and model makers would be only too happy to purchase metals in smaller quantites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted September 7 Author Share Posted September 7 6 hours ago, Geoffrey Crabb said: Hi Andy, no disadvantage, we used brass for years for tops. The only advice really is, if possible, do the polishing before sending to the platers. If not possible, vet the plater, you want someone who is used to dealing with similar decorative items. From past experience, avoid any who only deal with replating, large solid items (car bumpers etc.) They tend be over exuberant with the polishing resulting in over thin areas compromising the strength of the tops. In worst cases polishing right through areas of the fretwork😒. Geoff Thank you Geoff. This is all good info, It makes me want to get back into it again, but I've promised myself I'm retired.😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted September 7 Author Share Posted September 7 5 hours ago, Theo said: Another piece of advice - go for bright nickel plate rather than chrome. Virtually all metal ended concertinas were nickel plated. It has a warm creamy colour. Chrome by contrast has a cold bluish colour which I find a bit brash on a musical instrument. Thanks Theo. Good call. I agree about the harshness of chrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted September 7 Author Share Posted September 7 3 hours ago, DDF said: In the past I have bought it from here. http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm regards David. Thanks. Just sent a product enquiry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted September 7 Author Share Posted September 7 2 hours ago, Geoff Wooff said: It would appear that BREXIT has caused difficulties with importation from the makers Mettal Schulz in Nûremberg . I have heard the paperwork is too difficult but I have been searching for a supplier of Nickel Silver sheet in various thicknesses in Europe. Whilst I can purchase directly the minimum order is 50kg for each size which is too much for me. If anyone knows of a wholesale supplier or if someone were to take this on as a business I am sure many small craft workers and model makers would be only too happy to purchase metals in smaller quantites. Oh dear, so they probably won't supply one sheet. I'll give it a try though. Thanks Geoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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