What are metal ends made of?

[Andy Holder]

I'm just in the process of selling a metal ended Lachenal Maccann and I can't seem to work out what metal the end is. It's obviously bright chrome on the outside but the inside is a dull silver colour. I assumed it would be brass but it doesn't look like the inside is plated. It's not steel as there isn't any rust and if you scratch the surface it's not yellow underneath. Any ideas what they were originally made of?

[alex_holden]

They are commonly nickel silver (german silver), though that does tend to oxidise fairly quickly. A mirror bright surface would suggest it's either nickel plated or has been recently polished. If it was nickel plated I would expect to see plating on both sides.

[Andy Holder]

38 minutes ago, alex_holden said:

They are commonly nickel silver (german silver), though that does tend to oxidise fairly quickly. A mirror bright surface would suggest it's either nickel plated or has been recently polished. If it was nickel plated I would expect to see plating on both sides.

Thank you Alex, very informative. Do you know if it's possible to get any? I just looked at your beautiful duets. Are they nickel silver?

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Andy Holder

[Frank Edgley]

Nickel silver is a blend of copper and nickel Most concertinas with metal ends are nickel silver. There is no silver in nickel silver.

[alex_holden]

1 hour ago, Andy Holder said:

Thank you Alex, very informative. Do you know if it's possible to get any? I just looked at your beautiful duets. Are they nickel silver?

 

In theory yes, but I don't currently have a source because the metal supplier I used in the past doesn't stock it any more. It seems to be much less commonly available than brass, aluminium, stainless steel, etc. Presumably it was easier to obtain in Victorian England.

 

I have done a few instruments with unplated nickel silver ends; this is a recent example:

 

[Andy Holder]

That is beautiful Alex. Laser cut?

 

[Andy Holder]

59 minutes ago, Frank Edgley said:

Nickel silver is a blend of copper and nickel Most concertinas with metal ends are nickel silver. There is no silver in nickel silver.

Thank you Frank. I think I might struggle to find some.

[alex_holden]

9 hours ago, Andy Holder said:

That is beautiful Alex. Laser cut?

 

 

No, I hand cut them with a fretsaw. That one also has some hand engraving on the boat.

 

[Geoffrey Crabb]

20 hours ago, Andy Holder said:

 It's obviously bright chrome on the outside but the inside is a dull silver colour. I assumed it would be brass but it doesn't look like the inside is plated. 

Both sides were plated but as was customary, only the outside would have been is polished prior to plating thus the dull finish on the back. 

Why nickel- silver? Easier to pierce and polish.

 

Geoff.

[Andy Holder]

35 minutes ago, Geoffrey Crabb said:

Both sides were plated but as was customary, only the outside would have been is polished prior to plating thus the dull finish on the back. 

Why nickel- silver? Easier to pierce and polish.

 

Geoff.

Thank you Geoff. Do you think there would be any disadvantage in using chrome plated brass?

 

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Hi Andy, no disadvantage, we used brass for years for tops.  The only advice really is, if possible, do the polishing before sending to the platers. If not possible, vet the plater, you want someone who is used to dealing with similar decorative items. From past experience, avoid any who only deal with replating, large solid items (car bumpers etc.)

They tend be over exuberant with the polishing resulting in over thin areas compromising the strength of the tops. In worst cases polishing right through areas of the fretwork😒.

 

Geoff

[Theo]

Another piece of advice - go for bright nickel plate rather than chrome.  Virtually all metal ended concertinas were nickel plated.  It has a warm creamy colour.  Chrome by contrast has a cold bluish colour which I find a bit brash on a musical instrument.

[DDF]

23 hours ago, Andy Holder said:

Thank you Alex, very informative. Do you know if it's possible to get any? I just looked at your beautiful duets. Are they nickel silver?

 

 

In the past I have bought it from here. http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm

regards David.

[Geoff Wooff]

31 minutes ago, DDF said:

In the past I have bought it from here. http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm

regards David.

It  would  appear   that  BREXIT  has  caused   difficulties  with   importation    from  the  makers   Mettal Schulz in Nûremberg .   I  have  heard  the  paperwork  is  too  difficult  but   I  have  been  searching  for  a  supplier  of  Nickel Silver   sheet  in various  thicknesses in Europe.  Whilst I  can  purchase   directly  the   minimum  order  is  50kg  for  each  size  which  is too much  for  me.  If  anyone  knows  of  a  wholesale  supplier  or  if  someone  were to  take  this  on  as a business  I  am  sure  many  small  craft  workers  and  model makers  would  be  only  too happy  to  purchase  metals  in  smaller  quantites.

[Andy Holder]

6 hours ago, Geoffrey Crabb said:

Hi Andy, no disadvantage, we used brass for years for tops.  The only advice really is, if possible, do the polishing before sending to the platers. If not possible, vet the plater, you want someone who is used to dealing with similar decorative items. From past experience, avoid any who only deal with replating, large solid items (car bumpers etc.)

They tend be over exuberant with the polishing resulting in over thin areas compromising the strength of the tops. In worst cases polishing right through areas of the fretwork😒.

 

Geoff

Thank you Geoff. This is all good info, It makes me want to get back into it again, but I've promised myself I'm retired.😃

[Andy Holder]

5 hours ago, Theo said:

Another piece of advice - go for bright nickel plate rather than chrome.  Virtually all metal ended concertinas were nickel plated.  It has a warm creamy colour.  Chrome by contrast has a cold bluish colour which I find a bit brash on a musical instrument.

Thanks Theo. Good call. I agree about the harshness of chrome.

 

[Andy Holder]

3 hours ago, DDF said:

In the past I have bought it from here. http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm

regards David.

Thanks. Just sent a product enquiry.

[Andy Holder]

2 hours ago, Geoff Wooff said:

It  would  appear   that  BREXIT  has  caused   difficulties  with   importation    from  the  makers   Mettal Schulz in Nûremberg .   I  have  heard  the  paperwork  is  too  difficult  but   I  have  been  searching  for  a  supplier  of  Nickel Silver   sheet  in various  thicknesses in Europe.  Whilst I  can  purchase   directly  the   minimum  order  is  50kg  for  each  size  which  is too much  for  me.  If  anyone  knows  of  a  wholesale  supplier  or  if  someone  were to  take  this  on  as a business  I  am  sure  many  small  craft  workers  and  model makers  would  be  only  too happy  to  purchase  metals  in  smaller  quantites.

Oh dear, so they probably won't supply one sheet. I'll give it a try though. Thanks Geoff.