Valve punches

[SteveS]

Given the difficulties in obtaining spare parts from the UK - essentially due to Brexit - I'm thinking to reconsider tooling up to make my own parts.

 

I've got a lot of tools already, but what I'm missing are valve punches.

 

Any recommendations for someone who can make me a set of punches for valves?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[Clive Thorne]

What you need is something called (amongst other things) a Wad punch. All sorts of sizes and qualities available on line, and from all good serious tool shops (not may left these days).

No need to get anything special made (presuming you want round ones).

 

[SteveS]

2 hours ago, Clive Thorne said:

What you need is something called (amongst other things) a Wad punch. All sorts of sizes and qualities available on line, and from all good serious tool shops (not may left these days).

No need to get anything special made (presuming you want round ones).

 

Thanks - I have wad punches for the pads in a variety of different sizes.

My guess is for valves I'll have to have custom shapes made.

[Clive Thorne]

Apologies, I misread it and assume it was pad punches you needed.

For the valves I would have thought that an evening in front the telly, or with music on, with some sharp scissors would suffice, unless you were going into production.

That's what I do when I need to replace the odd one or two.

[Chris Ghent]

If you can find a person who makes clicker knives (look up “clicker press” on google to see what I mean) for people like shoe makers they might be willing.  

[SteveS]

8 hours ago, Chris Ghent said:

If you can find a person who makes clicker knives (look up “clicker press” on google to see what I mean) for people like shoe makers they might be willing.  

Thanks - that's a great idea

[Milesy]

I bought a set like these from Ebay. While most are of no use, I found half a dozen that would cut smaller valves. It was worth the relatively small cost. Extensive enquiries to find someone who would make a set specifically for concertina valves for me got nowhere. 

If you find someone that can supply a set, I'd be pleased to get details.

[Theo]

Or you can make valves like Jeffries did. Just simple rectangles.  You just need a straightedge, and a cutter. A roller cutter with a circular blade is better than a scalpel for cutting soft leather.

[Chris Ghent]

Nothing wrong with a rectangle. The valves I punch with round ended knives I had made 20 years ago often need trimming for width or length for use in chambers.

[Wally Carroll]

Made mine a long time ago so I don't know pipe sizes (or alloys) offhand, but I cut off a piece of steel pipe about 6" long and sanded the ends square on a disc sander.  I then rotated the pipe on an angle against the disc (possible by hand but I don't remember) to sharpen one end.  I then took it to a vise and crushed the sharpened end into an oblong shape with a piece of metal inside the hole at the sharp edge to prevent it from closing too far.  Took a bit of trial and error to get all the sizes I needed using different diameter pipes but I've been using the same punches for 20 years now and they've never been heat treated and only have been resharpened with needle files maybe a couple of times ever.

 

 

[Jake Middleton-Metcalfe]

14 hours ago, Wally Carroll said:

Made mine a long time ago so I don't know pipe sizes (or alloys) offhand, but I cut off a piece of steel pipe about 6" long and sanded the ends square on a disc sander.  I then rotated the pipe on an angle against the disc (possible by hand but I don't remember) to sharpen one end.  I then took it to a vise and crushed the sharpened end into an oblong shape with a piece of metal inside the hole at the sharp edge to prevent it from closing too far.  Took a bit of trial and error to get all the sizes I needed using different diameter pipes but I've been using the same punches for 20 years now and they've never been heat treated and only have been resharpened with needle files maybe a couple of times ever.

 

 

Well that has clearly worked well for you, sometimes the simplest way is the best. I had some made by a company, I can't remember the name of but probably would have done it the same way as you If I had thought of it!

[SteveS]

I've found someone on Etsy who can make clicker dies for valves, and an oval die for a pad.  Circular clicker dies are available off-the-shelf.  I'll need a clicker press too, and a modest small press costs less than €200.

[Jake Middleton-Metcalfe]

5 hours ago, SteveS said:

I've found someone on Etsy who can make clicker dies for valves, and an oval die for a pad.  Circular clicker dies are available off-the-shelf.  I'll need a clicker press too, and a modest small press costs less than €200.

 

Its ok you should not need a press really - these dies can just be hand tools used with a hammer. A friend of mine had good things to say about this company: http://www.woodash.co.uk/index.html who made him some hand strap clickers

 

or you could try this one if you cant get hand punches made at the above.

http://www.sjwestpressknives.co.uk/our-products-and-services/

 

Both in Northamptonshire which is an area with a long history of shoe manufacture. I would investigate woodash first - they have the worst looking website which probably means they are the best to deal with! That is just my experience with suppliers anyway! 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Jake Middleton-Metcalfe

[alex_holden]

I started out using my arbour press, but I soon found it's quicker just to whack the die two or three times with a mallet (I use a large Thorex nylon-faced hammer). My dies are a solid chunk of tool steel though; that might not work with the sort of clicker die that is made from bent steel rule set into a plywood frame.

 

I currently use a rubberwood end grain cutting board as my work surface for punching pads and valves. I run it through the planer occasionally to clean it up.

[SteveS]

Using a press with the clicker dies, set me thinking about what else it could be used for.

For example, having clicker dies made up for bellows making - the alternative of course is to make templates for the parts.

[Chris Ghent]

One of the problems with getting clicker knives made is you need to know exactly what you want and this is not guaranteed when you are starting out.  And you may find yourself not very far down the road wishing they were a little longer or wider or whatever. This is what happened with my gusset clicker knife, which went easily through 6 layers at a time under a small arbour press. I went back to cutting them out with a brass template and knife until design stabilised.
 

A laser cutter does most card, cloth and leather things well and the templates are easily changed. I have not used it for valves because it leaves a thin hard edge which is OK if you are skiving as it disappears but with valves it would still be there. Community tool places often have a laser cutter as well as 3d printers and cnc routers and would be easier and cheaper than owning one if you are in at a hobby level. 

 

Steve S, I wasn’t suggesting to buy a clicker press. Just saying clicker knives are one route to getting punches. 

[SteveS]

Thanks Chris

 

If bellows are so far gone, I've taken them apart to get the dimensions of the components.  The beauty of using templates for bellows parts, is that I can easily fabricate them in brass rather than wait weeks to order and have them shipped.

 

I won't be ordering any clicker dies for bellows parts, since there are a great variety of different bellows shapes and sizes requiring any number of dies.  And a quick calculation suggests at least 4 dies per bellows - more for stretched bellows.

 

With regard to the die press, I've not yet made a decision about whether it is right for me.

 

I did however receive some very thin punches in the post today - the largest is 6mm in diameter - these should be ideal for making lever arm beads.  I'll try them out later today.

 

[Sandy Winters]

I've had good luck just cutting valves by hand with a straight edge and good scalpel. Proper width and angle of the wedge shape is no problem. The real difficulty is getting the rounded ends of the valves cut...very difficult and time consuming. The solution is to cut/punch the ends of the valve with curved chisels/gouges of the appropriate size. One wack each end and your done.