Repeated notes

[Leah Velleman]

What's the best practice for repeated notes? Pulse the bellows with your finger on the button? Pull your finger off? Depends on the tradition? Something else?

[Bill N]

I believe from previous posts that you play Anglo, so:

 

Yes, those can both work.  You can also alternate fingers as you tap the notes.  Or sometimes the note is available in several places and you can alternate buttons.  It all depends on the tune, the note, where you want your fingers to be before and after those repeated notes, where your bellows are, and how you want the tune to sound. 

 

So many choices- the glory and torment of the Anglo Concertina!

[Leah Velleman]

Yes, sorry, should have specified -- it's the Anglo I'm wondering about. 

[Richard Mellish]

In at least one place in one tune where the first note of a phrase is the same as the last note of the previous phrase, I play one phrase on pull then change to push with the repeated note on a different button.

[John, Wexford]

You could just grace the first note of the second phrase.

[Leah Velleman]

The ones I'm most puzzled by aren't between phrases, they're the superfast (blue circle) or just regular-fast (red circle) ones that show up within a phrase.

 

(Not that I'm trying to play Brenda Stubbert's as a total beginner, it was just the first tune that came to mind that had examples of both.)

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Sometimes if repeated note is required ( on moderately tempo) music you can just use the one finger on them.. and that will do the job. Other times if very quick.. then you can use also bellows movement in itself to staccatto ( make the sound very short).. by slightly quivering the bellows .. it will come eventually with practice.

[John, Wexford]

Hi Leah,

 

The "superfast" AAA triplet is a giveaway that the player, and, (in this case), the composer Brenda Stubbert is a fiddle player, and so you will have to find alternative ornaments for this part of the tune.

 

I'm sorry but I've never heard of the expression "regular-fast" to describe two successive A notes in a tune, but there is absolutely no need to alternate or use different bellows directions for these two notes. This is where the grace-notes come in handy, and, in this particular tune, a grace-note would also be on the beat.

 

Here are some suggestions, but not exhaustive, to deal with those repeated A notes for the first part of this tune:

 

 

Simon,

 

Unfortunately, neither one-finger triplets, bellows reversals or bellows quivers will suffice for Irish Traditional Music, for obvious reasons.

Regards,

John.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Everyone will find their own way of playing, and sometimes each individual player will have to maybe invent their own individual technique that will work solely for their own uses. The nice thing about free reed instruments is also that there is never really one and only way of doing things; there is always some friendly flexibility to accommodate new or original methods.

Edited June 3 by SIMON GABRIELOW

[jim troy]

Leah, nice to see you picked a good one, Brenda Stubbert's

perfect for Concertina triplets, and a good tune.

 

Here is Niall Vallely, strutting his stuff.

(not on Brenda's tune ! )

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_5HqVSMFyc

 

Killer triplets, which are doable, don't let his speed deter you.

He had to start on the 1, 2, 3, himself, don't forget. 

 

Slow the vid down to half, or less, and see what he is doing.

It's pretty much 123, index, middle, and ring finger.

Not impossible, if you can drum your fingers on the table top, you can do this.

 

Niall also had at one time, a tutorial cd, part of which covered this very move.

I'm going to have a look see if it's still available.

I did get a copy from my Local Library, and it may have something like

Mad For Trad.

 

I have two pupils, tripleting all over the shop.

one 13 yrs, another 30 ish, so when they saw it being done, they just did it.

It'll take a little time, but sure, where are you going ? You're not on in  Carnegie, till  '26.

[richard]

Hi

IMHO....

Using bellows to sound a note or repeat a note is a very particular sound and would sound musical in the right context. Or it could sound stilted, in most contexts, if you ask me 

I think of the bellows like a pipe organ in that the air supply is always there pressurized so when you hit the key once or more that sound results.

 

An organ wouldn't work so well and the music wouldn't be so musical if each time a sound was needed the air tank had go from zero pressure to the forceful pressure that is needed for the pipe(s) to sound.

 

Pressurized is the key word. That tension from either pushing or pulling the bellows creates the pressure that is released through the reed when the pushed button lifts the pad.

 

And I think it works very well when that pressure is there, waiting to be released when the pad lifts.

 

I would guess we can judge any particular technique by how the results sound. Some do sound better, some worserer.

 

 Richard 

 

Edited June 5 by richard

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Of course, with Anglo system there is the extra challenge ..( concerning bellows use on repeated notes),  that in attempting to make repeated same notes quickly, you could, quite easily have a secondary note sounding by mistake. This being because of the way they have two notes on the one button  ( one in and one out). So it does take a bit of careful use of bellows to do the repeated notes this way.

Edited June 6 by SIMON GABRIELOW

[Chris Ghent]

Worth remembering no two consecutive single beat notes have quite the same feeling in Irish music. In a reel one will be on the front beat (or the back beat) and the other will not. 

[Clive Thorne]

I am having lessons with John Kirkpatrick at the moment. Obviously not an irish trad player, but he basically said that if he can't do any repeated notes with one finger then he tends not to bother! I'm sure there are exceptions.

[Wolf Molkentin]

On 6/4/2023 at 9:37 PM, richard said:

I think of the bellows like a pipe organ in that the air supply is always there pressurized so when you hit the key once or more that sound results.

I tend to disagree on this, however not in favour of starting a note by increasing the pressure but rather the other way around: producing some „extra“ pressure which has to be „there“ just for this particular note, which then can be even further accentuated with a sharp release…

 

best wishes - 🐺
 

 

Edited June 14 by Wolf Molkentin

[seanc]

I am not an anglo player.

 

but I have noticed that many irish players tend to play the fast (same note) triplets either alternating two fingers or hammering with three. (e.g. I-M-I, M-I-M or R-m-i).

 

 

I think you just need to try a bunch of stuff and find out what works best for YOU.

That said (assuming Irish) the thing is the notes need to be played at Speed and CLEANLY.

 

how you get there is, ultimately, secondary to the end result.

 

 

I think the best way to get up to speed is to set down with a metronome. Try a few different ways, and as the muscle memory starts to take hold, constantly increase the speed.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15 by seanc