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Replacing Lachenal action?


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Hello everyone,

My daughter currently plays a Lachenal Anglo (metal ends, metal buttons, 30 button) and she and her instructor feel that she’s outgrowing her instrument. While we are shopping for a new (or new to us) instrument, I’ve come across Wakker’s page about replacing the action. 
my question is this: is this a viable middle step on the progression of concertina ownership? Is the ~$800 a worthwhile investment or is it like replacing the engine and transmission in my 20+ year old suv?

thanks!

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While action can help to a certain extent to increase the speed of playing, to my knowledge it's moreso in the reeds themselves. The quality of their make and responsiveness will govern what you'll get out of them in the end. The speed your finger can come off a button and how fast the pad closes is very important for response time, I think, but it only goes so far if the reeds are what they are. 

 

Lachenals can sometimes be very good, but they are all over the place in terms of quality. Anecdotally I've heard that some are really fast, most are just good, a lot are not so fast. And in terms of getting what you put into the box back, the reed quality will still determine whether you'll get a return on your investment.

 

Then there's this other element, the idea of altering an antique and the moral question of modifying history. I reckon some would just tell you to find the right instrument for the job and sell the Lachenal along. I personally couldnt say if it should go through that modification unless I knew how fast the Lachenal was already, but I do think it's worth going for a newer concertina that's built for the task if you can afford it and just send the old boy back into the world to be enjoyed for the speed its built for. Just all my opinion though! *Dodges flying bottles* 

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IMO it's probably not worth replacing the whole action. Sometimes it is good to replace two or three individual levers that have worn and developed problems due to not following a straight line (the Lachenal pivot design doesn't work very well for curved/cranked levers).

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10 hours ago, Oberon said:

While action can help to a certain extent to increase the speed of playing, to my knowledge it's moreso in the reeds themselves.

I'll second that.  I've carried out an action replacement using some of Wim's parts (albeit a previous generation and although it greatly improves the action feel, the Lachenal reeds still hold the instrument back from being genuinely fast.

 

I once asked a well known UK maker the question "What makes an instrument fast?  Why are yours so quick and good?"  "Everything," was his reply

 

Alex West

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On 5/4/2023 at 12:42 PM, nultylynch said:


my question is this: is this a viable middle step on the progression of concertina ownership? Is the ~$800 a worthwhile investment or is it like replacing the engine and transmission in my 20+ year old suv?

thanks!

 

The short answer is, it depends.

 

I own a CG Lachenal that was refitted with a Dipper mechanism a number of years ago, one of a group sold by Paul Groff.   It is a superb instrument - very fast, great tone, a superb player.  My GD is a Jeffries, and I've become much fonder of the Jeffries layout, but I am loathe to give up the refitted Lachenal, so I go back and forth between the two systems.

 

But Lachenals, to the best of my knowledge, were quite variable in the quality of the reeds. The repair people who have worked on mine have rated its reeds as top quality. But I have played other Lachenals with Dipper internals that play well, but didn't sound nearly as good.

 

You might want to check with a repair tech like Greg Jowaisas to get a sense of whether a refit would be worthwhile. I wouldn't go into it blind.

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Before worrying about action, I would recommend that you optimise what you have, check air efficiency, the age and flexibility of the valves, the reed set set ups, and the key travel heights. None of which is big money, all of which can bear on the responsiveness of the instrument. Lachenal reeds can be variable, the later reeds can be softer. 

 

You need to ask yourselves what is not 'right' with the instrument you have, Volume? dynamic control? breathiness? slowness to respond? tappy keys? Is it the Lachenal layout versus the Jeffries layout? the need for an extra couple of accidentals? Are the bellows too heavy? do the keys catch a bit? You could stave off the day of replacement by getting the concertina looked at by someone like Greg (in the US). In truth, action replacement is the last thing I would consider, unless it is to replace one or two worn sub assemblies. You may well find that a service and set up will achieve all you need, and perhaps new bellows with an extra fold. 

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I completely agree with d.Elliot…esp the list of things that can affect the 'go' of an instrument. Improving the compression in particular can make a big difference, and old Lachenals can be a bit leaky, though you might not realise it. It’s worth analysing the failings of your Lachenal to see if some less radical work will improve it. But really, I’d not be spending money on changing the action. Find an instrument that does what you want and buy that.  

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On 5/4/2023 at 1:27 PM, nultylynch said:

Hello all,

My daughter plays Irish traditional (solo and in a ceili band). She currently plays a Lachenal (bought from and recently gone over by Greg Jowaisas) and she and her instructor feel she’s starting to outgrow the speed of the instrument. So, we’re looking to upgrade. While I understand the appeal (tonally, visually, historically) of a vintage instrument, the truth is it’s in the hands of a 13 year kid who lives in a part of the US with wide ranging weather (Maryland). I’d rather not be dealing so much with the vagaries of vintage. I would, however, be very open to buying used (especially with waitlists being what they are). 

Here’s what I’m looking at. I’d appreciate any feedback on the list. We’re looking for traditional concertina reeds with a fast action, under $5000 (we’re both schoolteachers, so further under is better, but we understand that this is an investment in our daughter), and shorter waitlist (this obviously doesn’t apply if we find something used). 

 

-Suttner ($4700 and an 18 month waitlist)

-7mount (not taking new orders)

-Thomas ($5800)

-Carroll ($6200+)

-Edgley Heritage (don’t know waitlist/price)

-Dipper (don’t know waitlist/price)

-The Irish Concertina Company (Eirú Silver/Gold…4200-4700..often no waitlist)

-Kensington (4000, shortish waitlist, local to us)

-Wakker (5600+, unsure of waitlist)

 

Kensington and The Irish Concertina Company are top of my early list. The price and waitlist are right. I don’t want to keep a 13 year old waiting for over a year to have a more responsive instrument. A gently used instrument changes things, obviously. 

 

Did I miss anything on the list? 

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 

For reference regarding whether the Lachenal had been serviced, In another thread, quoted above, the OP states Greg Jowaisis recently went over the Lachenal, so perhaps we can assume it's been adjusted to the best of its ability and the OP is on action replacement as the last conceivable component that could increase speed. Maybe the bellows route would be more useful than action replacement, but the difference in price isn't too extreme to the best of my knowledge. A very good new bellows set would run what, maybe $500-600? I have no idea how much Greg charges for a new bellows, but by the time you've invested $500 for bellows and maybe $800 for new action, and the Lachenal can maybe fetch $2500-3000 (depending on the model), you could indeed upgrade to something newer and faster. Kensington would be a stellar option at that price, and there are other Concertinas around $1000 more (OP is in the US, so USD is the currency) 

 

 

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Oberon, thanks for the 'other' thread reference. 

 

This is why you need to determine what you feel is the problem with the instrument, what you would like to see different in a replacement. Your repairer is not going to know what your concerns are unless you can identify them and find a way to 'quantify' and discuss your concerns.  Until you have been through this process you don't know what to look for in a replacement. My advice is to manage by fact, understand the issues and not just throw money at the problems. Replacing the action in total is unlikely to yield as much benefit as you may think. Just remember that sprung levers can move faster than fingers, the biggest 'slowers' are valves followed or combined with reed tongue set, then key travel distance.

 

The only thing a newer instrument guarantees is that it might be shinier, not necessarily better, however you define better.

 

 

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