Resources for concertina building

[Fraxinus]

Hi! 

I am a fairly new concertina player, and have decided that I am really enjoying learning the instrument! Currently, I am playing a Rochelle, which is fine for what I am doing now, but eventually, I would like to move up to a nicer instrument. However, I tend to have more time than money, so I am interested in maybe building one at some point. I am a skilled leatherworker, and I do a lot of small handcrafts with wood (spoon carving, greenwood carving, etc). I have built three harps (and restored/repaired a few), and I am very methodical when it comes to building things. My dad and brother are hobby luthiers that mainly work with guitars. 

 

Can anyone recommend a book, site, or video tutorials? I looked to see if there was a central thread for resources, but didn't see one. I have access to a full woodshop with almost every tool you could want

[David Barnert]

Good luck!

 

It is said that most of the value of a concertina is in the reeds, and you will have to decide what to do about that. Make your own reeds? Source concertina reeds? Source accordion reeds and make a hybrid (like your Rochelle)? Each of these choices has some significant pros and cons to consider.

Edited April 15, 2023 by David Barnert
Fixed typo and a little rewording.

[Fraxinus]

Ideally, I would like to make an actual concertina with concertina reeds, but it would be highly dependant on cost/how complicated it would be to make my own. 

[RAc]

Tedrow Zephyr Concertina (homewood.net)

 

[Steve Schulteis]

I wouldn't expect to save a lot of money unless you already have a lot of materials and components on hand. Reeds alone will cost a few hundred dollars. Mix in leather, card, levers, springs, pads, buttons, specialized tooling, etc, and the dollars add up real quick. Not to discourage you - I think there's a lot of merit in making things. But cost savings will probably be meager, especially on the first instrument.

 

To get an idea of what's involved in reed production (and many other parts of concertina building), check out Alex Holden's blog and Instagram. There's also some interesting stuff on the Kensington concertinas website.

 

There's not one central thread documenting building methods, but there is a lot of good info on this forum. Many makers and repairers have generously shared their expertise over the years. Searching for info about specific components will yield good results.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Steve Schulteis

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

What not utilise a used concertina.. one that is physically now only useable for spare parts? And salvage parts from it? May be cheaper to source one than buying all the bits from scratch. Someone may be glad to move on old one for less price.. use the bits left over 

[David Lay]

Here is a website with details of Henrik Muller's journey into making his own.  http://concertinamatters.se/page2/page2.html  I have found his information and Alex Holden's to be most helpful (both of which have so far convinced me to stick to basic repairs).  Both are members of concertina.net.

[David Lay]

Also, here is one source for manufactured individual reeds https://www.harmonikas.cz/en/uvod-english/.  If you search the name on concertina.net, you can find discussions by others about their experiences buying these reeds.

https://www.harmonikas.cz/en/product/dix-concertina-original-2/

Edited April 16, 2023 by David Lay

[Wally Carroll]

My advice would be to make your own instrument only because you want to make your own instrument as you are not likely to save money; and your first instrument is not likely to be as good as what you could buy for less than you’ll spend.  In order to make your own reeds here are a few tools you might not have in your workshop:

 

To cut the shoes you would need a milling machine at minimum (preferably cnc) and a significant amount of time to get it all figured out.  To cut reed pans you would need either a cnc router (milling machine could work) or a pin router with appropriate templates that are difficult to make (though possible) without cnc machinery.  To cut tongues, at minimum you would need a metal sheer and a lot of time to file profiles. More sophisticated setups also involve using surface grinders with reed profiles dressed into the wheels, though this wouldn’t make sense unless you were going to make several instruments. 
 

Another major expense which I would consider essential  is a good quality instrument to study and use as a template.  This may or may not be something you could borrow from a friend. 
 

Again, do it for the fun and challenge of doing it, not to save a few bucks. In fact, if you do make one, you’ll probably want to make another and then you’ll start down the rabbit hole of investing more money into it and twenty two years later . . .

[alex_holden]

If you want to make your own reed assemblies but don't have a CNC milling machine, it is possible to have the frame blanks made for you by a commercial laser cutting service, e.g. SendCutSend. I believe that's what David Hornett did.

 

There are some fairly cheap CNC routers (e.g. 3040) available from China that probably aren't strong enough to cut metal parts, but might be adequate for routing reed pans and action boards.

 

IMO one of the most important tools for reedmaking is a good low power microscope with a backlight so you can see how much clearance you have between reed tongue and frame. I started with a binocular optical one but have now mostly switched to a 1080p video microscope connected to a large monitor.

 

I agree that it's very helpful to have access to high quality instruments to study if you want to learn to make good instruments yourself.

[Chris Ghent]

I have found if you tell someone how to make a concertina they realise they don’t want to do it.  

Edited April 19, 2023 by Chris Ghent

[David Hornett]

I have made quite a few concertinas, 37 to be precise, in 4 different sizes and different number of buttons: metal and wooden ends, from many different Tasmanian woods. It can become very addictive. I began knowing nothing, and the first four 39 button concertinas were basically unplayable because I guessed about profiling and was not aware of the critical aspect of precise fitting of the reeds, although I was at the time rather proud of the results of my efforts.  It took me over 1000 hours to make my first concertina, the hardest part was making all the jigs: a little guided vertical router for the reed pans, the bellows jig, a sanding drum / thicknesser, button dies, a saddle screw jig, reed profiling jig and a button making jig, among others.  Each 'tina takes about 120 hours now, but I am retired so do it in dribs and drabs between other activities. My last 4 took a month each. And as I have run out of shoe blanks, I suspect number 37 is my last.

 

I designed my reeds to be parallel and wider than standard concertina reeds, (figured wider ones would be louder) thinking that tapered reeds would be harder to hand shape. They are not. Once I had designed the reeds (width and length), I got the shoes lazer cut commercially: 3000 of them in 14 different sizes from 2mm brass. I had considered casting them myself in maybe: bronze / brass / alloy, but figured that was going too far, so got them lazer cut. Each shoe still has to be undercut, have the saddles fitted and a 7 degree taper filed on the sides.

 

My first reeds were made of clock springs, they worked, but after one instrument I settled with cutting them from plate spring steel. That worked better (no curve to straighten.) Each reed is hand cut and profiled: approx 4 reeds an hour, 64 in a little over 2 days if I get carried away.

 

I have absolutely enjoyed the challenge; have given quite a few of my later 'tinas away: I treat it as a hobby, not a business, and have sold a few to cover costs. Each family member also has one to remember granddad/uncle by.

 

At number 6 I decided to make no more; did the same at 10, then 20, then 30, and now am up to 37. Each time I decided to stop, I  thought I might just try a small alteration, or reduce size to a smaller model, or try out snake skin rather than roo leather.  It is addictive.

 

My advice is if you would like to make one tina, or 37, do so. But you most certainly won't save money, unless you can get your hands on a good set of used concertina reeds for a pittance: but then there goes the challenge. The cost of all the materials, and the lazer cut reed shoes comes to approx A$600 each 'tina. And then there is the tooling and the jigs.

 

Hope this helps: I have had a lot of fun, and have some very nice looking instruments that I enjoy playing; friends I have given them to tell me they also enjoy them. I hope they are telling the truth.

 

David

 

[Fraxinus]

Hi! 

 

I am just now getting back to planning this concertina build. You all have given me a lot of good information! 

 

I was also fortunate enough to be able to visit Thomas Concertinas over in Cumberland, MD a couple of months ago, and got to see his shop set up, as well as learn a little about what went into building one of these instruments. It was my first time really being able to see/hold a good instrument, and, man, what a difference from the rochelle! I am a smaller person with small hands (5'2" with little raccoon paws), and have found myself struggling a little with the sheer size of the Rochelle while learning to play, especially when needing to employ my pinky for notes. I get away with it on the harps I've made, since they have the tighter, Irish-style string spacing. 

 

Jeff was super gracious in answering all of my questions, and giving me an overview on reed making. While I still think I might like to make reeds some day, that part of the process is really the one bit I don't think I feasibly have the tools to do. I don't do much metal manufacturing on my own. In theory, someone in my network of friends probably has a cnc metal milling machine, and would be able to make the parts for me in exchange for me making something for them (I hang out with a lot of makers, and a lot of bartering happens), but I wouldn't begin to even know how to design what I need. I feel like this is also probably the most critical part to get right in order to end up with a useable instrument. 

 

Since my first posting, I have joined a local maker space that offers free access to laser cutters and wood milling CNC machines, which is really exciting. Basically, you just need to bring your own materials, or purchase materials at-cost from them. They also offer free classes in learning how to use/design on those machines as well, so I think that will go a long way towards being able to build the reed pan, and other precision wood parts. 

 

I recently went spelunking in my friend's woodshop as well. He works for a mill that supplies high-end lumber for contractors, furniture, and cabinetmakers, and brings home all of the various offcuts/leftover bits that are too nice to throw away or burn. I brought home some really nice walnut, birdseye maple, and mulberry (though I might be keeping the mulberry for a small harp). 

 

So far, I've collected the wood, bartered for a very fine black kidskin suitable for gloving or bookbinding that I am planning to use for the bellows, have sourced bone that I am going to turn into buttons on my tiny lathe (though I might go for antler instead), and am saving up for a reed set/other premade hardware. I already do some medieval bookbinding, so I've basically got all the materials/tools to make the bellows on hand. 

 

Since I don't have access to a bunch of instruments, I would welcome any photos of concertina innards, or measurements y'all might have laying around so I can start drawing up some plans. I'd like to make a 30 (+air  button) anglo with a wheatstone layout like the rochelle, but with more traditional sizing dimensions. 

 

If there are any American makers, too, that might be willing to sell a set of reeds to an enthusiastic first-timer, please let me know as well! Currently, I am looking at overseas reed producers, like Harmonikas, but I always like to work with other makers first before going to a company if I can. I am trying to get a general idea on how much money I am going to need to scrounge for a good set. 

 

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice! 

[mChavez]

Good luck pal.

 

FWIW, I've started making my first bandoneon about a month ago.

 

I just went to my local IKEA and bought a build-your-own flat-pack bandoneon kit.

 

Pretty neat, huh?

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by mChavez

[Fraxinus]

They definitely don't have those at our local Ikea. XD 

[mChavez]

In regard to reeds, apparently DIX in Czech Republic offer concertina reeds, but I have no idea about price and lead times.

They also offer bando reeds...But they are not great at replying to emails, as I have enquired about them but haven't heard back from them.

 

I say make your own...From my limited fannying about with reedmaking so far, reed stiffness, and how you spread it over the reed (i.e. shape, length, profile, stiffness of steel used) plays a critical role to the reed's attack and timbre.

It's really not as easy as just getting the stiffest reed with the tightest tolerances, the way they come out of the modern factories. This type of reed gives you the highest loudness and the best dynamics, but it comes at the price of instant attack (which you might not necessarily want in your instrument) and harsher timbre.

If you decide to make your own, you have to accept that you won't be making them as well as modern a-mano quality coming out of a big reed maker house, but in exchange you get full control over timbre and attack, i.e. you control how your reeds will sound. I think it's perfectly possible to make very good reeds yourself - you just need to match slightly bigger reed gaps with slightly softer reeds to ensure the dynamics are good.

 

To give an example, I've got a top of the line Excelsior accordion with Cagnoni a-mano reeds. By accordion standards the sound is exceptional...But I'd rather spend all day playing my pre-war Alfred Arnold bando with old-school hand-made reeds. They are not nearly as loud, the pitch stability is not as great as the Cagnonis, and the dynamics, while sufficient, are objectively not as good...but to my ear the timbre is a lot more interesting and I prefer the slower attack.

 

If DIX come back with a reasonable price tag, I'd probably buy them just so I finish my first bando sooner, and I can start making my second one

Edited October 19, 2023 by mChavez

[mChavez]

1 hour ago, Fraxinus said:

While I still think I might like to make reeds some day, that part of the process is really the one bit I don't think I feasibly have the tools to do.

Do you have a  belt sander or a bench grinder? You need to make a couple safety files - these are not available from any shops, but can be made from widely available Bahcos (£30-50).

If you don't mind getting the plates/shoes lasered from aluminium rather than brass, the cost should be acceptable (£100-150 I imagine) and will save you a lot of time. No need for any other metalworking equipment. Once lasered, you use your files to clean up and open up the slots [the slot walls are not parallel - the walls need to be angled outwards, so that the slot expands as the tongue goes through it (i.e. on reed side the slot width will be, say, 3mm, while on the outside it will be ~3.1mm] . This stops the tongue from clipping the walls, while ensuring minimal fitting gap on the reed side. At least that's how non-concertina reeds were hand made in the past.

[Fraxinus]

I would be absolutely open to making my own reeds, and would love to learn how to do it so that I could really say the instrument was 100% mine,  but, basically, the only concertina-type-instrument I have ready access to is my rochelle, which I am reluctant to take apart, since I am also learning to play on it, lol. I'm also not really in a position to buy wreckers to take them apart, either.

 

I don't really know what the measurements for real concertina reed shoes would be, so I am not really sure what I would need to order from the cutter. So far, I haven't been successful in finding exact measurements or diagrams/files for reeds on the internet, and it seems like each maker has their own preferances/shapes. Thanks to Jeff, I sort of know what the process is, but it's getting my first one made successfully when I am not sure how/where to start is the problem. 

 

I do have both a belt sander, and a bench grinder! And a microscope!