Crane Duet and finger lengths

[springer52]

I've just been reading with interest Kurt Baun's excellent article on inner, outer and neutral hand positions for efficient fingering on the Crane Duet.

 

I'm at a beginner level but I would like to ultimately progress further then just "the basics" so this is helpful to know.

 

My only concern with playing the Crane by mean's of "home fingers" dedicated to their own specific columns is that I have very small hands.

For example my little finger can only extend (reliably) as far as C# in the right hand (B flat left) - i.e. 3 rows up. Beyond that (4th row) is a major stretch and can't be played at speed while the 5th row is impossible for me and i have to use finger 3 exclusively instead.

 

So it is impossible for me to cover the entire outer column with just finger 4. I have to use the 3rd finger on higher notes, which rather spoils that nice systematic approach.

 

I am curious to know how many other Crane players out there can or cannot reach 5 rows (or even 6 rows as my 55 button Crane has in the right hand) using only finger 4 for the outer column.

 

I find trying to cover all 5 columns with only 3 of my fingers (when playing above the 3rd row) to be very frustrating and I'm concerned that it will prove a major limitation to my development longer term.

Edited April 10, 2023 by springer52
edited for typos

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I have no experience of the duet system, although. I have seen them..

But here's a thought; could you extend that little finger by perhaps using a sort of  thimble type cover on your finger; sounds a bit "off the walk".  I realise ..but you never know it could give extra length to that digit! ( Need not be a metal thimble) 

Perhaps a home made soft tube!

Probably sounds silly.. Don't know if will work.. just a thought.🌝

[springer52]

8 hours ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

could you extend that little finger by perhaps using a sort of  thimble type cover finger

Thanks Simon. it's an interesting idea and nothing to lose by trying it.

 

I had hoped some fellow Crane players might have chipped in by now with how many rows of the outer column their pinkies can reach. That would give me something to compare with.

 

But it all seems pretty quiet. Maybe folks are on Easter hols.

 

Thanks again

 

[RAc]

Hi springer52,

 

sorry for not responding earlier.

 

From your elaborations it is not quite clear whether your problem is mostly related to the upper rows of your Crane or applies to all rows.

 

On my two smaller Cranes (45 and 48 buttons, respectively), I can by now cover almost all of the outer buttons comfortably, but on my 55, the upper rows still require some stretching, in particular when it comes to the outer columns. I believe this is to be expected (I would label my hands average size).

 

Maybe you could produce a wee video of your right hand in action for us to check if there are obvious things to improve? If you would like to keep that private, please feel free to send me a link to it via PM.

Edited April 12, 2023 by RAc

[springer52]

1 hour ago, RAc said:

Hi springer52,

 

sorry for not responding earlier.

 

From your elaborations it is not quite clear whether your problem is mostly related to the upper rows of your Crane or applies to all rows.

 

On my two smaller Cranes (45 and 48 buttons, respectively), I can by now cover almost all of the outer buttons comfortably, but on my 55, the upper rows still require some stretching, in particular when it comes to the outer columns. I believe this is to be expected (I would label my hands average size).

 

Maybe you could produce a wee video of your right hand in action for us to check if there are obvious things to improve? If you would like to keep that private, please feel free to send me a link to it via PM.

 

Hi RAc

 

Thanks for your comments. My main reach problem is with my pinky finger. I can manage the other fingers just about ok on my 55 button Crane.

Now that I've checked it it again since my OP I find I can stretch my pinky to get to the 4th button along the outer column (F#) but it is a real stretch and playing anything other than very slowly would be unrealistic with it, right now anyway unless stretching will improve over time.

The 5th and 6th buttons out along the that outer column require me to use my 3rd finger instead which means I can't use the ideas in Kurt's article because I can't maintain an "outer position" (pinky all the way to the highest button of the outer column).

 

It's helpful to know to what extent I am alone in this problem (due to my shorter then average fingers) compared to other Crane players in general.

 

It sounds like your pinky can reach that top E flat on your 55 key box (with stretching)?

I'm not sure if I've understood that right though.

 

In order to properly adopt those inner and outer position techniques getting my pinky to somehow cover the entire outer column seems essential, by definition.

 

*So perhaps a simpler way to explain would be that I can't use my pinky for any of the notes on rows 5 and 6 of my 55 button box.*

Even at row 4 it is stretched out so straight that it invariably ends up pressing buttons below the intended one at the same time.

 

I can post a video if the above isn't any clearer.

 

And thanks again for help.

Edited April 12, 2023 by springer52

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Sometimes it can be a concern for people trying a different approach to playing instruments; I have been criticised for putting my whole hands beneath straps of my Anglo system concertina, but it works for me🌝..

So, maybe you will indeed have to dare to do things a bit differently, particularly as it could, in the long term, be the most convenient approach to a solution for your deemed problem.

The techniques traditionally taught are good for general use, however, for those with smaller hands, etc... Maybe adapting to a personal technique may be best?

 

[springer52]

 

25 minutes ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

Sometimes it can be a concern for people trying a different approach to playing instruments; I have been criticised for putting my whole hands beneath straps of my Anglo system concertina, but it works for me🌝..

So, maybe you will indeed have to dare to do things a bit differently, particularly as it could, in the long term, be the most convenient approach to a solution for your deemed problem.

The techniques traditionally taught are good for general use, however, for those with smaller hands, etc... Maybe adapting to a personal technique may be best?

 

 

Yes thanks Simon. I think ultimately you are quite right. We all just have to do what works best for us in the end.

I had really wanted to adopt the ideas in Kurt's document because learning to use the same finger for the same note in as many cases as possible has so many advantages in speeding up play and making muscle memory easierwhen learning pieces.

 

It may just be that in my case those "same fingers" will just have to apply to fewer notes. It does also means the top 3rd of the right hand has to be played with only 3 fingers which will be limiting.

 

What I'd really like to know is are there any other Crane players out there who are unable to get their pinky to the highest notes of the outer column (in fact ANY button beyond row 4 in any column), and **have they found that its held them back at more advanced levels?**

 

I'm at very early stages with my Crane so I don't have a lot of time invested in it yet which means it wouldn't be a big deal to change systems early on if I find in out early enough that the particularly "long layout" of the Crane has proved problematic for other "digitally challenged" folks in the past.

Edited April 12, 2023 by springer52

[Kurt Braun]

No answers, but several things that come to mind:

= My hands are not small, but during my first few years of playing I couldn't reliably reach top notes. Also, my hand really arched playing the lower rows and my fingers would stumble often with the tips falling between the studs rather than on them. Loosening the straps fixed all of that. When meeting players for the first time some are very surprised at how loose my straps are. I can touch most studs with any finger and even the top and bottom most, and inner and outer most studs with at least 3 fingers. 

= There many references to the difference in strength of fingers on this forum. People worry about pinkies being up to the task. Pinky fingers are not treated with such tenderness by other instrumentalists.  The highest, lowest and loudest notes on pianos are played by pinkies. Highest and loudest on violins, violas and cellos as well. Left hand pinkies are well relied by guitarists. They are seriously hard workers. Fingers, even little ones are strong and well up to the tasks we give them.

=The arch and Chevron crane keyboards have been well discussed in other posts. Most Crane player (including me) feel they are essentially equal. The Chevron keyboard is a tad narrower. Both of mine instruments are Cheveron. (I play a 4 note Eb arpeggio with each stud getting a finger. That puts the pinky on the 1st Eb, ring in the G, index on Bb and middle on the high Eb. Awkward as it is, it results in a smooth arpeggio and is worth the practice. That said, I can't imagine myself not cheating and just letting the index finger play the Bb and higher Eb on a chord.) You *might* find a very marginal amount of help by moving to Chevron.  Really, very, very marginal! 

[Little John]

Late to the topic but I am a Crane player with small hands, which isn't entirely a disadvantage. In one video I played the top Eb on the LHS (row 4). An anglo player remarked that I seemed to struggle to reach it. I wasn't conscious of it at the time, but on watching it he was right. I had learnt long ago what Kurt has just said:

 

7 hours ago, Kurt Braun said:

Loosening the straps fixed all of that.

 

So I slide my hand through further when I need to reach high notes with my little finger. This isn't possible when standing up to play but sitting, with one end resting on my thigh, it's easy. Standing I struggle to reach F# on the RHS, often hitting the C# too; sitting I can manage the top Bb.

 

Don't give up on the little finger, or on the Kurt's idea of inner and outer positions. Both make playing so much easier. My standard position is the outer one, but there will often be a short passage of, say, 3 to 8 notes, where a change to the inner position makes the fingering much simpler and hence the music flow more smoothly.

 

One example: for B4 E5 D5 C5 on the RHS I would use index, middle, ring and little fingers. The last three notes are therefore in Kurt's 'inner' position.

 

Second example: for D4 G4 A4 B4 on the RHS I would use little, ring, middle and index fingers. This is really all outer position with the little finger crossing to the fourth column.

 

If you've got short fingers they may also be not too wide. This is useful for fingering fourths like the BE and DG in the two examples.

 

[springer52]

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and advice.

 

I have taken on board everyone's suggestions and it really is helping.

It make a big difference in confidence knowing that if others can do it, so can I.

The looser straps help a lot in particular, and persevering with inner/ outer positions is definitely worth doing.

 

Thanks again

Neal

[Alan Day]

I enjoy watching how people play the Anglo and some move their hands all over the place to play chords, unlike myself with dedicated fingers to buttons. They have the hand straps looser than I recently suggested, but dedicate fingers to chord shapes, not buttons.  If I did this I would certainly work out a way of keeping the concertina in a static position ,a way to do this could be by using the bellows in a fanning style (Watch Edele Fox as an example). Some players have tiny hands and I cannot really see what other way they could manage it. Simon, as he mentions, puts his whole hand inside the strap and it works for him. I suggest you experiment and find a way you can reach all the buttons with ease, but still with the concertina under control and start working on chord patterns. At first you may find a few difficult ones, but I can assure you that even with larger hands a few chords are a struggle, but that is the fun of this instrument.

I look forward to you posting one of your recordings on the Duet recordings page in the future.

Al

[malcolm clapp]

Just a few random jottings which might assist....and apologies if these suggestions have already been covered in other posts....

 

I no longer play or own a Crane, but had an excellent teacher for some years, now sadly no longer with us. I remember that she had a somewhat unusual take on the fingering in that she didn't think in terms of the buttons being in rows or columns, but instead, the buttons being in diagonal lines, and holding the concertina at an upwardly facing angle in a manner of Simon Thirmere's way of holding the English concertina. Just wondering whether changing the angle at which you hold the concertina might help, though I would imagine that you have already experimented with this.

Have you considered that raising the height of the hand-rests might assist? Depending upon the model and make, it should be quite a simple modification (and completely reversible) to slip a layer (say 2 or 3 mm) of wood or stiff card beneath the original hand-rests to see if it helps. I did this for a Maccann player with a similar problem, and she found it a great improvement in reaching the higher notes, though she struggled a little with having to bend her fingers more for the low notes.

Another idea, and somewhat less reversible, is to reposition the hand rest at an angle rather than straight across the face of the concertina. I believe there was some discussion on this site some years ago (can't find it right now), where a maker (can't recall who it was) made anglos with an adjustable hand-rest position. I seem to remember that it was to make the hand-rest closer to, or further from, the buttons, but angling was also an option. Maybe your search abilities are greater than mine and may be useful to find it and see the comments which might be helpful, and whether such a thing can be retro-fitted.

Edited November 21, 2023 by malcolm clapp
last 8 words omitted from original post, now added.