Introducing the bandotin

[soloduet]

Here is a first recording with a new instrument designed and made by Harry Geuns in Belgium. It's an hybridation between the reeds system of a bandoneon and the Wicki concertina keyboard, so I called it a bandotin. This prototype has 89 buttons (46 on the right and 43 on the left) which is maybe a little too much but for this first experience I wanted to have the same range than a traditional Argentinean bandoneon, almost fully chromatic, and some double notes for the most distant altered notes (which is a condition to make this system work at his best). I hope that some other musicians will be interested to play this kind of instruments:

https://youtu.be/7Lqd_ZqzSGU

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

A most rich and melodious sound.🌝

[Jody Kruskal]

Delicious rich buttery sound. Wow!

[dabbler]

Congratulations on the new instrument. Sounds great. I look forward to hearing more.

[mandojoe]

Lovely sound, a bit mellower than bandoneón.  How I admire the intimate control regardless of whichever instrument is in your hands!  Am I correct understanding that, unlike a bandoneón, the buttons are not diatonic?

[Anglo-Irishman]

A nice, full sound, indeed! However, I find it lacks the "dynamism" I associate with the true Bandoneon. I wonder whether this lies in the arrangement of the piece, or stems from the fact that the system is unisonoric rather than the traditional bisonoric system.

Cheers,

John

[ttonon]

If I understand correctly, this instrument differs from the conventional bandoneon only in the keyboard arrangement of how/where the notes appear and that the sound sources are conventional free reeds (it's not an electronic instrument).  My guess is that there thus should  not be much difference in the sounds between the two instruments, unless the positional arrangements of the reeds have some subtle affect on sound.  

 

I agree with many here that it sounds mellow, and that also means that I don't hear the more shrill higher frequencies that I hear with the conventional instrument in the upper half of the tonal range. It's a bit puzzling why those overtones are not there, if the traditional 2-notes per key (an octave apart) is maintained with  the new instrument.  For me, those shrill tones, and I believe for many others, adds to the startling effect traditional bandoneon music offers.  But maybe I'm just not hearing what's really there.  

 

In that regard, how is this recording made?  How many mics were used and where were they?

 

I'd say this sound file is only an introduction to the enormous range of effects this particular bandoneon should offer, and it would take a skilled musician playing with full dynamic excitement to make a full evaluation. 

 

I do see the potential that a simplified/uniformized keyboard has for beginners, and this may be the greatest advantage of the new instrument.

 

Best regards,

Tom

www.bluesbox.biz 

[soloduet]

Yes, it's unisonoric like the Hayden concertina. It's true that with the so-called diatonic Argentinean bandoneon they play almost only on the pull, and the need to return always to the pull position using the air valve gives a specific dynamic to the music. But it's possible to imitate this way of playing even with a unisonoric instrument using the air valve. Bandoneon players who play tango on the Peguri system which is also unisonoric often do that to add this specific dynamic to their music. I'd like to work also on this technic but here the style of the tune is different, it's not a "true" traditional tango, more a kind of tango nuevo and it's more Canadian than Argentinean. 

Also my goal is to play different kind of musics and not just imitate the Argentinean style, even if I like it very much. If the goal is to play only in the traditional Argentinean style then I think that it's better to play the Argentinean bandoneon. The same that if you want to play only Irish music it's better to play the anglo system rather than to try to imitate it on a duet for example.

 

@ttonon I took a look at your website and I'm very interested by the technology of pitch bending on free instrument because I'd like also to play some musics from the Middle East. Did you make some prototype of concertinas with this technology? And would it also possible to adapt it on my concertina or on my bandotin?

 

[Łukasz Martynowicz]

On 3/29/2023 at 2:06 PM, ttonon said:

If I understand correctly, this instrument differs from the conventional bandoneon only in the keyboard arrangement of how/where the notes appear and that the sound sources are conventional free reeds (it's not an electronic instrument).  My guess is that there thus should  not be much difference in the sounds between the two instruments, unless the positional arrangements of the reeds have some subtle affect on sound.  

 

I agree with many here that it sounds mellow, and that also means that I don't hear the more shrill higher frequencies that I hear with the conventional instrument in the upper half of the tonal range. It's a bit puzzling why those overtones are not there, if the traditional 2-notes per key (an octave apart) is maintained with  the new instrument.  For me, those shrill tones, and I believe for many others, adds to the startling effect traditional bandoneon music offers.  But maybe I'm just not hearing what's really there.  

 

In that regard, how is this recording made?  How many mics were used and where were they?

 

I'd say this sound file is only an introduction to the enormous range of effects this particular bandoneon should offer, and it would take a skilled musician playing with full dynamic excitement to make a full evaluation. 

 

I do see the potential that a simplified/uniformized keyboard has for beginners, and this may be the greatest advantage of the new instrument.

 

Best regards,

Tom

www.bluesbox.biz 

 

 

My guess would be, that either reed frames are made from aluminum instead of traditional zinc, and/or that they are in individual frames instead of on common plate. Didie, do you know what reeds are installed in your bandotin?

[Jim2010]

On 3/27/2023 at 3:42 PM, soloduet said:

Here is a first recording with a new instrument designed and made by Harry Geuns in Belgium. It's an hybridation between the reeds system of a bandoneon and the Wicki concertina keyboard, so I called it a bandotin. This prototype has 89 buttons (46 on the right and 43 on the left) which is maybe a little too much but for this first experience I wanted to have the same range than a traditional Argentinean bandoneon, almost fully chromatic, and some double notes for the most distant altered notes (which is a condition to make this system work at his best). I hope that some other musicians will be interested to play this kind of instruments:

https://youtu.be/7Lqd_ZqzSGU

 

Didie, Congratulations! You keep advancing in the direction of more and more beautiful sound.

[Stephen Chambers]

On 3/28/2023 at 10:28 PM, Anglo-Irishman said:

... I find it lacks the "dynamism" I associate with the true Bandoneon. I wonder whether this lies in the arrangement of the piece, or stems from the fact that the system is unisonoric rather than the traditional bisonoric system.

 

Ironically, as more-developed (with more buttons, making them chromatic on both press and draw) versions of bi-sonor concertina-family instruments have appeared, the more uni-sonor their playing has tended to become - in that many of todays Irish traditional players seek to play more smoothly than the old-timers by playing phrases in one direction of the bellows, whilst the preferred Argentinian tango style is to play exclusively on the (more expressive) draw notes, using the wind-key as a "dump valve" between phrases to void the bellows of wind - that's what you're hearing!

 

Watch and listen to the maestro himself, Astor Piazzola, in action in this video:

 

 

By the way, I was closely involved in the exhibition "Sehnsucht aus dem Blasebalg. Concertina & Bandoneon" fand vom 01.Juli bis 28.Oktober 2001 im Schloßbergmuseum Chemnitz statt.

[Stephen Chambers]

On 3/31/2023 at 10:59 PM, Łukasz Martynowicz said:

My guess would be, that either reed frames are made from aluminum instead of traditional zinc, and/or that they are in individual frames instead of on common plate. 

 

I can't say for certain what reeds are in this particular instrument, but certainly Harry Geuns' professional model 142-toniges (Tango) Bandonions come with parallel shaped steel reeds on zinc or (optional) aluminium long-plates.

 

I've known Harry for a long time - in fact you'll see photos of some of my early instruments in the "History" pages of his website: https://bandoneon-maker.com/bandonion-history-collection/history-1/

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Stephen Chambers

[soloduet]

On 3/31/2023 at 11:59 PM, Łukasz Martynowicz said:

My guess would be, that either reed frames are made from aluminum instead of traditional zinc, and/or that they are in individual frames instead of on common plate. Didie, do you know what reeds are installed in your bandotin?

Yes, I can confirm that on my bandotin the reed frames are made of zinc and on common plates, exactly like on the traditional argentinean bandoneon. Harry Geuns proposed also an option with aluminium frames, for a question of weight but all the bandoneon players that I know advised to choose zinc frames to get this special sound. Actually I'd like to get the oportunity to compare both options because the instrument is quite heavy and my goal is not necessarily to reproduce exactly the bandoneon sound, even if I like it.

[soloduet]

Another tune played on the bandotin, maybe a little more argentinean?

 

https://youtu.be/-oOvDJYeWLg

 

[mChavez]

@soloduet

Interesting instrument.

 

How are you finding the Wicki layout for playing melody on the right hand side?

 

I've started playing a Kusserow bandoneon a few months ago and I'm blown away by this instrument. I was excited about the bass side of the Kusserow - the 4-row chromatic is related to the accordion's moschino, which has got to be the best thing to ever happen to free bass accordions...but because the concertina/bando hand position is different (duh), the 4-row chromatic with doubling rows does not feel nearly as ergonomic. The treble side I was not so excited about...but it grew on me! I was also not very keen on learning two different systems for left & right... but as Hank Williams used to sing, I saw the light. Some systems are easier for melody while others are easier for accompaniment with chords, arpeggios & only occasional melody voicing. So some are a good left hand fit, some are a good right hand fit.

From looking at it, Wicki seems to be the perfect left hand fit.

 

I am now toying with the idea of making a smaller konzertina/bando box, just over 2 octaves in each hand instead of 3 octaves of the Kusserow. A compact body, about 2" smaller than the full-sized Kusserow. And I've come across the Wicki layout, which seems to be a good fit for the bass side.

Edited November 17, 2023 by mChavez