Breathy Notes on 30 button Anglo

[Cathasach]

I've noticed that I am getting a very breathy tone from the A/G and G#/Bb buttons. I haven't opened it up to take a look but I'm assuming it's not the reeds themselves bc it's happening on the push and the pull.

 

Any suggestions for what I should be looking for?

[Greg Jowaisas]

The symptoms warrant a check of the reed pan support block that the reed pan rests upon.  It is glued inside the bellows frame in that corner beneath the G/A and Bb/G# notes.  Give it a good wiggle.  Sometimes they look firmly attached but move once the concertina is put back together.

[d.elliott]

What make of Concertina?

[Cathasach]

On 3/20/2023 at 1:26 PM, d.elliott said:

What make of Concertina?

It's a Pheonix from McNeela. It's relatively new, I got it in december. Not sure if it came this way or not bc I'm learning and I don't think I used the accidentals on the left hand until now.

[Cathasach]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:42 AM, Greg Jowaisas said:

The symptoms warrant a check of the reed pan support block that the reed pan rests upon.  It is glued inside the bellows frame in that corner beneath the G/A and Bb/G# notes.  Give it a good wiggle.  Sometimes they look firmly attached but move once the concertina is put back together.

Nothing is wiggling or loose that I can tell. The reeds look correctly adjusted on their blocks. The pan looks firmly sealed all around.

 

 

[David Lay]

Dave Elliot's repair book explains that a reed tongue at-rest position can cause the symptom you are experiencing (gap too great).  Perhaps it's this simple.

[Greg Jowaisas]

"Nothing is wiggling or loose that I can tell. The reeds look correctly adjusted on their blocks. The pan looks firmly sealed all around."

 

I had assumed (incorrectly) that you had a vintage instrument.   Those with hybrid instruments and familiar with their construction may offer useful advice.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Greg Jowaisas

[d.elliott]

I would talk to the manufacturer especially if it is relatively new. I have done work on the accordion reeded reproduction instruments, but I am not familiar with this particular (McNeela) manufacturer. I don't know if the reeds are waxed, bolted or screwed into place. Cathasach, where are you based?

[RogerT]

A photo of the inside would help. You don’t say if you bought it new. If it’s got accordion reeds these instruments can be tricky to get back together without introducing air leaks. So if/when you take it apart to take a photo be super careful when you reassemble it.

[Oberon]

Those phoenix Concertinas have a accordion reeds that are waxed to the reed pan, so removing them to adjust position or set or clean is going to be a challenge. I'd start by trying to slide a thin piece of paper under the offending reeds if possible, as it could just be dust and the like. Otherwise melting the wax and reinstalling the reeds properly is not the easiest first timer job when it comes to repair. There's a lot of tricks one can use for the action, but maybe it's best bringing it to an accordion repair tech or send back to McNeela 

[Cathasach]

I got it new in December. Here's a pic. The two closest reeds are the problem. They seem to be seated the same as all the other reeds.

[RogerT]

As it’s new it’s still under warranty so really it ought to go back to McNeela. The gap looks ok (on the outside e.g. push reeds), so if it’s breathy in both directions, but just on those two notes, it might be a leak between the two reeds. The wax mIght look ok but might be leaking air between the two chambers. In practice and if I was investigating it I'd pop off those reeds, inspect inside for anything obvious, then reseat them. This can be done with a soldering iron and some care. This may or may not fix the issue, but if the reeds and valves look ok it’s where I would start.

[Theo]

It might be all sorts of things, a faulty glue joint below the block the reeds sit on is another possibility.

 

I would endorse the earlier suggestions of going back to the supplier if that is possible.  If you are too far away then an accordion repairer will be familiar with this type of reed.

[Cathasach]

On 4/27/2023 at 11:02 AM, RogerT said:

As it’s new it’s still under warranty so really it ought to go back to McNeela. The gap looks ok (on the outside e.g. push reeds), so if it’s breathy in both directions, but just on those two notes, it might be a leak between the two reeds. The wax mIght look ok but might be leaking air between the two chambers. In practice and if I was investigating it I'd pop off those reeds, inspect inside for anything obvious, then reseat them. This can be done with a soldering iron and some care. This may or may not fix the issue, but if the reeds and valves look ok it’s where I would start.

Aha, thank you, this was the problem! There was a gap in the wax between the reed blocks.

 

Sweet success!

 

Unfortunately McNeela has not been very good at responding, and I'm in CA while they're in Ireland, so I had to do it on my own. Luckily I've had a lot of experience with wax recently and was up for it.