aeolina Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 For those interested in that kind of thing... reporting on the results of an experiment involving recording concertina binaurally has started on this page: https://raretunes.org/stuart-eydmann/ Feedback welcomed! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON GABRIELOW Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Very interesting and in depth articles, and selection of music. The binaural process of recording sounds interesting. I wonder if just placing two standard stereo speakers a measured distance apart, similar to a concertina's two ends, in distance apart, would have the same desired effect as it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Barnert Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 7 hours ago, aeolina said: For those interested in that kind of thing... reporting on the results of an experiment involving recording concertina binaurally has started on this page: https://raretunes.org/stuart-eydmann/ Feedback welcomed! Listening to the examples with ear buds, what I hear sounds like exaggerated separation of the right and left sides, much more than what one would hear if listening directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Łukasz Martynowicz Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 A word of warning - binaural recordings can be epileptogenic. Binaural concertina recordings can be even more epileptogenic, because of the nature of free reed sound. If you have a history of neurological problems, do not listen to those recordings on headphones. The reason for that is that binaural recording separate sides more than in nature, as they do not take bone conductivity into account. Effectively, English concertina ornamentation in binaural recording is an equivalent of police car strobes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Łukasz Martynowicz Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, David Barnert said: Listening to the examples with ear buds, what I hear sounds like exaggerated separation of the right and left sides, much more than what one would hear if listening directly. Read my reply above. Binaural recordings separate sides way more than they should for natural effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeolina Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 Thanks for the early comments - I'll let this run for a bit before responding. Has anyone else been down this road with the concertina? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Irishman Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Depends on what you mean by "this road." If you mean the binaural recording technique: no, I play acoustic music. If you mean taditional music on the concertina: yes, definitely. As a native Irishman who spent his childhood in the Highlands of Scotland, I'm a great one for slow airs. Mostly, I sing them, but I have a couple worked up on the concertina as well. Only my concertina is an Anglo. The EC recordings you link to strike me as, well, not all that great, really. There seems to be something about the EC that dampens expression, and although grace-notes should be just as feasible on it as on the Anglo, the linked recordings make little use of them. The lack of expression (and I'm going to duck and run after I've written this!) seems to stem from the tenuous connexion between the EC and the player, which seems to limit the dynamic range that an Anglo player, with his "stout" bellows and firm handstraps, has. The linked fiddling doesn't really impress me either - but that's not my speciality, I haven't played the fiddle for decades! I'll just say that the fiddling I heard in a Derry pub last summer - and in a pub in Fort Wiliam a few years ago - was preferable! Well, you did ask for feedback! Cheers, John 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeolina Posted January 25, 2023 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 I found this in a Google search. Not sure what is happening here other than two traditional stereo recording set ups. https://www.facebook.com/NotifyBand/photos/a.431984730240718/1316869208418928/?type=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Łukasz Martynowicz Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 10 hours ago, aeolina said: I found this in a Google search. Not sure what is happening here other than two traditional stereo recording set ups. https://www.facebook.com/NotifyBand/photos/a.431984730240718/1316869208418928/?type=3 The dummy or real head in the middle shields microphones from sounds coming from the other side, separating channels, but what is even more important, physical spacing and fields of microphones in binaural setup match natural ones, so it reproduces spatial distribution of sound sources perfectly. This creates effect of physical presence. This is why binaural recordings should be listened via headphoned and with your sight blocked (blindfolds work better than simply closed eyes, because closing eyes changes the context to „inner eye” while blindfolds allow you to keep looking but not seeing anything, increasing the strength of illusion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) On 1/23/2023 at 9:52 PM, Anglo-Irishman said: Depends on what you mean by "this road." If you mean the binaural recording technique: no, I play acoustic music. Isn't it self-evident from the thread title "Binaural Recording of Concertina"? The rest of your post is uncalled-for and not in the friendly spirit of this forum. Whatever you may think, in Scottish music it's the English concertina that is the traditional system. Edited January 25, 2023 by Stephen Chambers Edited to add "Whatever you may think, in Scottish music it's the English concertina that is the traditional system." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) On 1/23/2023 at 3:35 AM, aeolina said: For those interested in that kind of thing... reporting on the results of an experiment involving recording concertina binaurally has started on this page: https://raretunes.org/stuart-eydmann/ I've been watching The Whistlebinkies at Haddo House, Aberdeenshire, 2021 just now Stuart, and came to the section that features the music that the band played for the Scots Gaelic production of "The Scottish Play" (Macbeth, gin ye dinnae mind the curse!) where binaural sound is mentioned as being used in that. Was that the beginning of your interest in the subject? Edited January 25, 2023 by Stephen Chambers Punctuation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Irishman Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 23 hours ago, Stephen Chambers said: The rest of your post is uncalled-for and not in the friendly spirit of this forum. Well, feedback was asked for! And if the OP was intending to showcase a particular recording technique for traditional music and musicians, it was my opinion that he could have found more attractive examples. That's all. No offence meant; apologies if any was taken! Cheers, John 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Anglo-Irishman said: Well, feedback was asked for! Only about binaural recording, anything else you wrote was neither called for nor invited. Quote And if the OP was intending to showcase a particular recording technique for traditional music and musicians, it was my opinion that he could have found more attractive examples. That's all. No offence meant; apologies if any was taken! That's disingenuous. If you meant it you'd have deleted what you wrote already. Can we please get back to discussing this interesting topic? Edited January 27, 2023 by Stephen Chambers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeolina Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 Stephen Thanks for your interest in this. Yes, the Haddo House concert featured a suite based on the music composed for the late 1970s BBC radio production of the Scottish Play. This piece featured in our 1981 album for Claddagh Records of Dublin. Neither the album nor the Haddo concert were recorded binaurally. I am now inspired to record it that way next time it is performed in a decent hall and will post the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Folks, please stay on topic as in the original post rather than hashing out other debates. Thank you. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeolina Posted January 28, 2023 Author Share Posted January 28, 2023 This essay, published online with examples, is a good introduction to the practical aspects of binaural recording and relevant here: 'Creating Immersive Listening Experiences with Binaural Recording Techniques' by Shane Hoose. Published online: 3 March 2015 http://dx.doi.org/10.18177/sym.2015.55.mbi.10863 PDF: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26574394 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Mellish Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 My understanding of binaural recording is that it is intended as an improvement on conventional stereo recording, giving more realistic spatial imaging. Given the nature of a concertina, with sound coming out of the ends in opposite directions, I am somewhat bemused as to the virtue of any sterophonic imaging at all. With a Duet, or with an Anglo if playing mostly melody on one end and chords or harmonies on the other, a case could be made for allowing the listener to hear the two ends separately. With an English, or with an Anglo played in the Irish style, don't you want all the notes to seem to come from roughly the same place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Łukasz Martynowicz Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, Richard Mellish said: My understanding of binaural recording is that it is intended as an improvement on conventional stereo recording, giving more realistic spatial imaging. Given the nature of a concertina, with sound coming out of the ends in opposite directions, I am somewhat bemused as to the virtue of any sterophonic imaging at all. With a Duet, or with an Anglo if playing mostly melody on one end and chords or harmonies on the other, a case could be made for allowing the listener to hear the two ends separately. With an English, or with an Anglo played in the Irish style, don't you want all the notes to seem to come from roughly the same place? I think the following analogy is a good one: - monophonic recording lets you look into the room from across the street - you see a flat image behind a window glass - stereophonic recording places you just outside the window, so you can get a better look, with some limited perspective, but you are still behind the glass - surround systems put you on a chair inside the room, but you can only look around a bit - binaural recording let you move around the room freely and closely examine everything, but at the same time exaggerates everything in a kind of hangover intensity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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