Types of concertinas … demystified

[mandojoe]

I am new to the concertina world (I’ll probably use that preface for the next couple of years).  As I look through the various forums here I am often left scratching my head over what exactly the specific concertina being discussed might be.  I know the major difference between Anglo and English, but beyond that I am mostly lost.  I know that duets come in various configurations, but am otherwise at sea.  Is there some reference source that details the flora and fauna of this forest from Kingdom thru Species?  Thanks for any help you can provide.

[David Barnert]

You might have a look through the Concertina Library. More information than you could possibly want, but at least it’s all there.

 

To briefly answer your question, what the various duet concertina configurations have in common is that like the English, they play the same note pushing and pulling, but have the melody notes all on the right side, while the left has a similar pattern but an octave lower for accompaniment.

[wunks]

29 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

You might have a look through the Concertina Library. More information than you could possibly want, but at least it’s all there.

 

To briefly answer your question, what the various duet concertina configurations have in common is that like the English, they play the same note pushing and pulling, but have the melody notes all on the right side, while the left has a similar pattern but an octave lower for accompaniment.

...and generally have an overlap zone of at least a few notes in common to either hand. 

[Łukasz Martynowicz]

Regarding duets, the most important thing, that differentiates them from Englishes and Anglo is the ability to play two uninterrupted strings of notes, one for each hand. Be it melody and countermelody, melody plus accompaniment, octaves up to fully fledged polyphony. Englishes and Anglos both allow you to play in those ways only in some particular cases and sometimes even only in parts of a given tune. Then the different flavours of duets boil down to two aspects - ergonomy and logic of the button layout, and availability of first/second hand instruments.

[Ken_Coles]

I suggest a look at the Concertina FAQ (faq being a search term that has become uncommon), where Chris Timson maintains some basic answers to such questions.

 

Ken

[Richard Mellish]

I always suggest trying to find somewhere where one can have a twiddle on as many different concertinas as possible.

[mandojoe]

Thanks for your responses and suggestions.  It seems I did not clearly express what I am trying to learn.  Let me try a different approach.  

 

When I look, for instance, at the Buying/Selling forum, I see things like this:  "Marcus 30b c/g in Jeffries". Now, to demystify this would mean to say: "Marcus" = brand ; 30b = "30 buttons" ; c/g this concertina is set up to play only in keys C & G, so that, for instance, you will not find a button for B-flat ; "Jeffries" is the layout of the buttons/notes.  I think this is all correct, but it doesn't say English or Anglo (I know it is not a duet since it specifies playable keys).  Is there something here that tells me it is one or the other?  Does the c/g specification mean that this is an Anglo?  Are English never so specified?  Does the "Jeffries" indicate that this is an Anglo?  Is there not a Jeffries layout for English concertinas?

 

So, if I then look at this: "AC Norman, 32 button, C/G Wheatstone layout", the "Wheatstone" does not tell me what type or concertina this is, but does the "C/G" tell me that this is an Anglo?

 

"ESB Baritone C/G" -- is this an Anglo with scales an octave lower than a "normal" (?) Anglo?

 

What is a Crane edeophone, aeola?

 

Does "Crane or James Anglo" refer to button layouts or to brand names?

 

Etc.

 

Some of the listing text provides answers for the specific instrument, yes, but not always and rarely addresses the broader questions.  

 

Again, I appreciate your help in all of this.

[mandojoe]

Or, in lookiing for some kind of A-Z direcrtory, am I just being a wuss who doesn't want to spend time researching every mysterious term, acronym, shortrcut reference?  Please feel free to say so.

[Paul_Hardy]

1 hour ago, mandojoe said:

When I look, for instance, at the Buying/Selling forum, I see things like this:  "Marcus 30b c/g in Jeffries". Now, to demystify this would mean to say: "Marcus" = brand ; 30b = "30 buttons" ; c/g this concertina is set up to play only in keys C & G, so that, for instance, you will not find a button for B-flat ; "Jeffries" is the layout of the buttons/notes.  I think this is all correct, but it doesn't say English or Anglo (I know it is not a duet since it specifies playable keys).  Is there something here that tells me it is one or the other?  Does the c/g specification mean that this is an Anglo?  Are English never so specified?  Does the "Jeffries" indicate that this is an Anglo?  Is there not a Jeffries layout for English concertinas?

 

Anything that specifies a pair of keys will be an Anglo. The instrument is based round ease of play in those two keys. If its a 20 button, then it can only play in those keys (plus their relative minors and equivalent modes). If it is a 30 button, then it can play in several other keys as well, but not as intuitively or fluently.

 

There is no real variation on an English layout - 48 buttons providing all the notes for playing in *any* key over 4 octaves. . So no Jeffries English layout. Occasionally you find reduced English (36 buttons), but that is reduced range not a different layout.

 

For Duets, there is much more variation - Crane, McCann and Hayden have very little in common, other than they have enough buttons for you to play a melody on one hand and an accompaniment in the other.

 

I hope this helps - I agree that is confusing that we use the same name to describe three instrument types with very different operational modes.

[Chris Ghent]

22 hours ago, Ken_Coles said:

I suggest a look at the Concertina FAQ (faq being a search term that has become uncommon), where Chris Timson maintains some basic answers to such questions.

 

Ken

Another reason to look at the Concertina FAQ; it is a lovely look back in time. This is what the internet used to look like 25 years ago. 

[David Barnert]

1 hour ago, Chris Ghent said:

Another reason to look at the Concertina FAQ; it is a lovely look back in time. This is what the internet used to look like 25 years ago. 

 

Yes... Notice the page on Duet concertinas looks forward in anticipation to The Button Box producing the Beaumont (Hayden).

[Ken_Coles]

3 hours ago, mandojoe said:

Thanks for your responses and suggestions.  It seems I did not clearly express what I am trying to learn.  Let me try a different approach.  

 

When I look, for instance, at the Buying/Selling forum, I see things like this:  "Marcus 30b c/g in Jeffries". Now, to demystify this would mean to say: "Marcus" = brand ; 30b = "30 buttons" ; c/g this concertina is set up to play only in keys C & G, so that, for instance, you will not find a button for B-flat; "Jeffries" is the layout of the buttons/notes.  I think this is all correct, but it doesn't say English or Anglo (I know it is not a duet since it specifies playable keys).  Is there something here that tells me it is one or the other?  Does the c/g specification mean that this is an Anglo?  Are English never so specified?  Does the "Jeffries" indicate that this is an Anglo?  Is there not a Jeffries layout for English concertinas?

 

So, if I then look at this: "AC Norman, 32 button, C/G Wheatstone layout", the "Wheatstone" does not tell me what type or concertina this is, but does the "C/G" tell me that this is an Anglo?

 

"ESB Baritone C/G" -- is this an Anglo with scales an octave lower than a "normal" (?) Anglo?

 

What is a Crane edeophone, aeola?

 

Does "Crane or James Anglo" refer to button layouts or to brand names?

 

To add to Paul Hardy's reply...

 

A 30-button C/G has buttons for Bb in three different octaves. (at least, mine do) The two named keys are just "home keys" and are in some ways a very distracting way to specify the instrument. People play C/G concertinas in D, A, F and so on all the time. I have a tune worked up on mine in Bb minor (5 flats). It is just a matter (for me) of practicing the scale and learning where the notes are without thinking.

 

C/G does mean it's an anglo. So does "Jeffries" or "Wheatstone" or "Lachenal" (the most common layouts of the third row and other notes around the periphery).

 

A baritone C/G anglo (or a baritone English system) are indeed an octave lower - great fun if specialized in utility for some.

 

Edeophone and Aeola were trademarked names for top models at Lachenal and Wheatstone, respectively (you can still order an Aeola from Steve Dickinson). Edeos had 12 sides and Aeolas have 8 rather than the common 6 sides. They can be English, anglo, or duet system.

 

Crane refers to a duet system. James is (IIRC) a maker of anglo concertinas.

 

While Chris's page is quaint, it does address many of these questions. Looking at makers' pages (for example, Wakker concertinas at http://www.wakker-concertinas.com/) can also give you an idea of what they look like, along with dealers (try Barleycorn  https://concertina.co.uk/  for lots of pictures.

 

What are they good for? I won't touch that debate (and remind my colleagues to keep it friendly!). Another point where I hold with Chris Timson is to discount any assertion that any style/genre requires a certain kind of concertina. Every kind of music has been played on every system by somebody, somewhere. It is a bit like guitars - imagine explaining flat-top/arch-top/resonator/Hawaiian/electric without pictures or actual examples to look at, or why different guitar tunings are used in different kinds of musical traditions - takes a bit of learning to get it sorted in one's mind.

 

Or as we say, welcome to the madness.

Ken

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I know for anyone new that the wide world of free reed ( which includes concertinas, ).. can be confusing, as there's so many kinds. I think it surprises people, expecting only one variety, once they enquire, just what a universe of choice appears before them, once they research.

As for range; my type is Anglo, and has the basic C and G layout, however, it enables me to play on all key tones that will fit its capabilities, due to the accidentals,sharps and flats also being included in design. Even if sometimes a challenge due to having two notes on one button action.

There's melodious, Accordions, harmonium, also in free reed genre, to confuse you even more!

[alex_holden]

13 hours ago, mandojoe said:

Thanks for your responses and suggestions.  It seems I did not clearly express what I am trying to learn.  Let me try a different approach.  

 

When I look, for instance, at the Buying/Selling forum, I see things like this:  "Marcus 30b c/g in Jeffries". Now, to demystify this would mean to say: "Marcus" = brand ; 30b = "30 buttons" ; c/g this concertina is set up to play only in keys C & G, so that, for instance, you will not find a button for B-flat ; "Jeffries" is the layout of the buttons/notes.  I think this is all correct, but it doesn't say English or Anglo (I know it is not a duet since it specifies playable keys).  Is there something here that tells me it is one or the other?  Does the c/g specification mean that this is an Anglo?  Are English never so specified?  Does the "Jeffries" indicate that this is an Anglo?  Is there not a Jeffries layout for English concertinas?

 

So, if I then look at this: "AC Norman, 32 button, C/G Wheatstone layout", the "Wheatstone" does not tell me what type or concertina this is, but does the "C/G" tell me that this is an Anglo?

 

"ESB Baritone C/G" -- is this an Anglo with scales an octave lower than a "normal" (?) Anglo?

 

What is a Crane edeophone, aeola?

 

Does "Crane or James Anglo" refer to button layouts or to brand names?

 

Etc.

 

Some of the listing text provides answers for the specific instrument, yes, but not always and rarely addresses the broader questions.  

 

Again, I appreciate your help in all of this.

 

To add to the other answers:

 

ESB was a model of Anglo concertina made by the Button Box. ESB=Extra Special Baritone. The term "baritone" can mean slightly different things depending on the system, but in this case it is a C/G that plays one octave below a standard instrument. Instruments made by the Button Box are also often referred to as "Morse" because the company was started by Richard Morse.

 

Edeophone was the brand name of a range of concertinas made by the Lachenal company, typically at the higher end of the quality scale with better reeds, recognisable for having twelve sides. Most of them are English, some duets, rarely Anglos.

 

Aeola was the Wheatstone equivalent of the Edeophone brand, but with (usually) eight sides rather than twelve. To answer a related question you didn't ask, Linota was what Wheatstone called their Anglo models prior to WWII.

[Richard Mellish]

12 hours ago, Ken_Coles said:

C/G does mean it's an anglo. So does "Jeffries" or "Wheatstone" or "Lachenal" (the most common layouts of the third row and other notes around the periphery).

 

Just by way of clarification of that bit from Ken: Jeffries, Wheatstone and Lachenal are the names of makers, who made various systems, not only Anglos.  For Anglos with more than 20 buttons, the name Wheastone or Lachenal also implies a particular layout of the extra buttons, while Jeffries implies a different layout. Modern makers have made Anglos with both layouts.

[wunks]

Also, "Jeffries" made duets as well as anglos and the one is sometimes mistaken (visualy) for the other.

[Stephen DOUGLASS]

Mandojoe, if your reason for starting this thread is because your thinking of buying, and getting started on this lovely instrument, your doing some diligent work. Nice! Many of us just dive in and do the research afterwards. ( I did). That said if you acquire a well 'set up' instrument and are prepared to do the practice, you will not be disappointed...what ever flavor you decide on. I started out on English, and to be honest, because of the layout of the buttons I find it the easiest to 'read' music (especially on the fly) of all the other instruments I play. It's just intuitive (for me at least).. left hand 'on the line' of the staff..right hand in the 'middle of'. But if you continue your journey it's highly likely, as you commune with others with the same interests, that you may want to explore the other possibilities, and even find that you want to go a different route. Just get crackin' on that journey, it's exciting

[David Barnert]

18 hours ago, David Barnert said:

Yes... Notice the page on Duet concertinas looks forward in anticipation to The Button Box producing the Beaumont (Hayden).

8 hours ago, alex_holden said:

Instruments made by the Button Box are also often referred to as "Morse" because the company was started by Richard Morse.

 

And for completeness, it should be pointed out that The Button Box ceased manufacturing and retail operations earlier this year and now operates only as a repair shop.