First Concertina for Irish music

[Fiddling]

Hello, I'm looking for a concertina for my daughter. I think she would have fun with a concertina and am trying to order one for Christmas. I am probably looking for something I can order from the US so I can receive it in time. From my research, it appears we need an Anglo, and I think 30 button would be better to give her more options. I had been looking at a Wren from McNeel, but it looks like I can only get one from Ireland. So I'm down to the Rochelle and Rochelle 2. Are there more I should consider? I do not want to exceed $600.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Fiddling

[David Barnert]

While it’s true that the Anglo is more traditionally associated with Irish music, many people play it on the English concertina, and as a classically trained violinist, your daughter may find the English more intuitive. Wheatstone developed it as an alternative to the violin. It has the same range, it is strong on quick melodies, and the bellows work is more akin to bowing than the Anglo, which requires quicker bellows direction changes because each button plays a different note in each direction.

[Ken_Coles]

David is right on every point. Ken Sweeney plays Irish so well on English system concertina you can't tell it isn't an anglo. It is worth pointing out, however, that if having instruction in playing Irish style is desirable (from a book, or from a teacher in the US), virtually all instruction that I know of is for anglo system. That may be a consideration for you.

 

Ken

[Fiddling]

Hmm, that's a lot to think on. I did find a Jackie Treble English that was for sale in my price range. That seller recommended that I go with Anglo though he didn't have one in stock.  I was planning to get her some Irish instruction books to help her and some youtube instruction, so it seems Anglo would be better if much of the Irish content is for Anglo.

 

So any specific recommendations for Anglo in my price range or sellers to check out? 

[Ken_Coles]

What neck of the woods are you in, Fiddling?

 

Ken

[Fiddling]

PNW, and no shops nearby. It will require shipping

[gcoover]

I see Bellingham Windworks has the Rochelle in your price range. If that is close by you could probably check it out in person.

Gary

[bluesgal]

Fiddling - I have a Wren concertina that I purchased as my first instrument. While it was OK for a while, I cannot recommend it wholeheartedly for the following reasons: (1) every few weeks, a random button would start sounding while playing other notes, requiring me to open the case and "fiddle" with the spring or very gently sand the button hole opening to make it smoother. At first, it was kind of scary to open up the box and try to figure out what was wrong, but it quickly became TEDIOUS having to do so every two weeks or so! and you need teeny-tiny needle nose pliers to actually get in their and grip the springs. (2) the action is very stiff compared with models that are moderately priced (moderate meaning $1800-$2700); while this was fine at first, once I played a moderately-priced instrument, I quickly realized how much more effort it took to play the Wren versus something like a Clover or Morse model. (3) it is heavy and somewhat bulky compared with other models. I've seen several Wrens for sale in the $200-$300 range posted in the discussion group here, so you might consider looking around for a used one just so your daughter can try it out and know that there are better options should she decide this is the instrument for her. If you order from Ireland, you do get 3 months subscription to their on-line instructional videos and they are excellent! 

[Martin Essery]

Is it possible that a good quality 20 button anglo would provide a better initial learning experience than a poor quality 30 button in reliability, tone and playability?

[John Sylte]

I second the recommendation for a twenty button Lachenal. They are affordable and may serve to whet her appetite for a better instrument down the road. And if not then, you haven't spent a fortune. You can play a lot of tunes on a 20 button C/G. 

[Peter Laban]

I started my son, aged seven at the time, off on a vintage two row we had on loan. It had a c# at the end of one of the rows so that did fine. After a year he upgraded to a 30 button mahogany ended Lachenal that kept him going for a good while. Into his teens a nice, good quality,  vintage upgrade came along.

 

Teachers advised against the cheap accordion reeded ones available at the time and, to be honest, we were never tempted to go that way, for reasons of sound and looks. Butt YMMV.

 

I think that was the right way to go.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I was a lot older than seven when I got my first 20 button ( Kligenthal) made concertina; and although it was very 'chuncky' and had big buttons, never the less it provided me with a lot of pleasure as I began to learn to play. And I managed, even then, to find a few hundred tunes that suited it ( it was in C and G)!

[papawemba]

I would choose a nice vintage 20b...They have a great and charming sound. They are not the fastest but fun to play and a nice warm sound.

This one seem a good choice : 

https://concertina.co.uk/stock-selection/anglo-concertinas/lachenal-20-key-anglo-in-c-g-with-steel-reeds-messy-ends/

 

And I would ask to tune the very left button of G row (left side) to a low A on draw. this will open many possibilities in Irish (New useful note, chord).

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by papawemba

[Peter Laban]

1 hour ago, papawemba said:

I think it is better to have a nice vintage 20b !

 

I know what I would do, but different strokes and all that. And different people, different circumstances to consider, everyone should make the choice best for them.

 

A point to consider, perhaps, if someone comes to the instrument through listening to a particular music and has fallen for a particular sound, it is worth taking that  into acount and look at instruments that actually produce something approaching that sound.

[Don Taylor]

A very recent example of how good a 20B Lachenal can sound:

 

Maybe Greg Jowaisas (in Cincinatti) has one available.

[Alex West]

2 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

...how good a 20B Lachenal can sound...

The picture of the concertina in the first slide is actually a G Jones I think.  Lachenals can sound as good (I haven't tested one against a Jones) but reed quality and response does vary

 

Alex West

[papawemba]

6 hours ago, Peter Laban said:

I know what I would do, but different strokes and all that. And different people, different circumstances to consider, everyone should make the choice best for them.

...

You are right and it's the kind of comment I could write myself lol

I changed it to "I would choose" 😉

Nicolas

[Luke Hillman]

Personally, I'd agree with your initial thought that a 30-button Anglo would be appropriate, if you decide to go with Anglo. Most (but not all) Irish players use C/G concertinas with 30 buttons.

 

Though 20-button vintage instruments can indeed sound very lovely, they are very limiting. Since Irish music tends to mostly be in D, you'd need to find a 20-button in G/D. It just won't be possible to play in D on a 20-button C/G box without the C#. (usual disclaimers: the key only really matters if she's likely to play with other people and/or relies on reading music. If she plays solo and by ear, any key will do, but it's hard to play along with recordings in a different key).

 

That said, the important tradeoff in my opinion is whether you think she'd be more pleased with an instrument that feels delightful to play and has the classic concertina tone (vintage 20b wins here) or one that enables her to play tunes in the "right" key and that opens up some more phrasing options (Rochelle wins).

 

As several have stated upstream,

• 20b Anglos can be altered to include a C#. This might be viable for you.
• English concertinas are capable of Irish music, too. At least in my neck of the woods, vintage English concertinas can be found for less coin than 30b Anglos.

 

Further disclaimer: I don't play much Irish music, so others can correct if I'm inadvertently spreading misinformation.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Luke Hillman