More Anglo C/G Concertina Button 'Layout' question/s. What is the Irish version of Jeffries L/O ?

[Notemaker]

Several sites mention this but do not actually diagram it.

 

So what is the Irish version of Jeffries button layout?

 

I attach three diagrams I made from reading comments about it and wonder which is 'Irish layout' correct.

 

Secondly one author states he used Neol Hill's button layout, so what is that?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Notemaker
Error

[Wally Carroll]

Your first layout is the basic Jeffries layout and of the three, it is the one I would choose for Irish music. However, because I don’t use d# all that much I would change right hand side top row first button on left to a c# both directions. 
 

Noel experiments with a bunch of different layouts. What he recommends for students is the right side as I have described and the left side with a low A in place of the low F on the first button top row and a D (same as middle button pull note on left) on the first button on G row on the pull.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Wally Carroll

[David Lay]

A third d' button rather than an octave lower?  

[Notemaker]

10 hours ago, Wally Carroll said:

Your first layout is the basic Jeffries layout and of the three, it is the one I would choose for Irish music. However, because I don’t use d# all that much I would change right hand side top row first button on left to a c# both directions. 
 

Noel experiments with a bunch of different layouts. What he recommends for students is the right side as I have described and the left side with a low A in place of the low F on the first button top row and a D (same as middle button pull note on left) on the first button on G row on the pull.

Thank you Wally.  That explains Noel Hill's recommended layout very well. Below my reading of your directions, which may save some typing.

 

 

[Wally Carroll]

Yeah that looks correct. The idea for the left side is that you have the same push/pull note locations for the A G and D notes on the two left most buttons in each row. Pull on first button and push on second button. 

[Notemaker]

14 minutes ago, Wally Carroll said:

Yeah that looks correct. The idea for the left side is that you have the same push/pull note locations for the A G and D notes on the two left most buttons in each row. Pull on first button and push on second button. 

Thank you Wally. I can now publish Noel Hill's layout on my Flicker page :0)

 

[Stephen Chambers]

On 11/13/2022 at 11:46 AM, David Lay said:

A third d' button rather than an octave lower?  

 

Yes, like I've mentioned in another thread, it's called the "Mary Mac"[Namara] layout here (in Ireland) and it has the major advantage of being playable no matter what C# layout you normally use.

[David Lay]

48 minutes ago, Stephen Chambers said:

 

Yes, like I've mentioned in another thread, it's called the "Mary Mac"[Namara] layout here (in Ireland) and it has the major advantage of being playable no matter what C# layout you normally use.

??  I understand the third C#''.  --Still not sure a third D' is an enhancement.  I think I would appreciate a D an octave lower in place of the deleted F.  An F# an octave lower would also be interesting to try.  

[Stephen Chambers]

4 hours ago, David Lay said:

??  I understand the third C#''.  --Still not sure a third D' is an enhancement.  I think I would appreciate a D an octave lower in place of the deleted F.  An F# an octave lower would also be interesting to try.  

 

Sorry, I was very tired when I posted that.

 

The third D, on the first button of the G row, is actually standard on most Anglos in original condition, but it's really something more appropriate for vamping an accompaniment on 2-row German concertinas than melodic playing on the low end of a 3-row Anglo, and I'd automatically convert it (by weighting) to draw A for Irish players. (Indeed, you'll find traditional Irish harmonica players tend to prefer the bottom-end melodic set-up of Far-Eastern tremolo harmonicas, over the vamping set-up of German ones.)

 

But in the "Noel Hill" diagram the draw A is on the first button of the third row, when it would be very easy to tune the customary low F to your low F#.

[Shayfogs]

I agree with Stephen that there was a third D on the draw on the last button of the LH inside row. (Same as Lachenals)

I too have changed it to a low A by loading it with a dab of solder.

In addition I have seen an A/D# instead of A/Bflat on the second last button on the LH outside row. Seems like a strange choice but perhaps has something to do with chording. Anyone got views on this?

[Clive Thorne]

Ideally I'd want a low D and a low A. I have the low A, so the D chord without the low D can sound a bit thin, after a run of bass rich C & F chords.

[Stephen Chambers]

9 hours ago, Shayfogs said:

I too have changed it to a low A by loading it with a dab of solder.

 

And I did it, yet again, on one only last night...

 

Quote

In addition I have seen an A/D# instead of A/Bflat on the second last button on the LH outside row. Seems like a strange choice but perhaps has something to do with chording. Anyone got views on this?

 

As a matter of fact I do Shay - in the meantone tuning that Jeffries used Eb and D# are two different notes, with around half a semitone between them, and you'll find the reeds are stamped accordingly. So, though Bb was the norm there, some players/original purchasers preferred to have an Eb in addition to the D#.