Breaking 'in' a new Concertina.

[Notemaker]

Some reading here led me to wonder are there any rules for breaking 'in' a new classic style Concertina?

 

Here I am wondering about the leather bellows, also steel reeds in brass shoes.

 

I ask because a Harmonica has to be played in carefully. Before blowing into it, care taken to warm it up in cold weather .

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Notemaker
Error braking in

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I do not claim to have a new nor Classic concertina; with my Anglo ( Hohner 30 button) been purchased back in 1999. But I remember it took a while to work it in, as bellows were new, leather, and also button mechanism was stiff . So it needed using, and adjusting, until it became easier to use .. and the leather 'supple'.. Once the worry over guarantees was well past, I learned by experience how to adjust inside, and the bellows became easier to use, as the leather ( skin ) which is what it really is in a way, naturally gave more. So, using ( an unused instrument) I would say is certainly important to keep it working.

It may be different if you have bought a previously used one of course. It needs excercizing  regularly just as anyone else! To keep all its musical muscles working in good condition!🌝

[Wally Carroll]

I wouldn’t worry about any break in procedures.  Our instruments are played pretty heavily before shipping and I can’t think of anything that you shouldn’t do when you first get it that would be ok to do later.  More important is setting good habits up front such as returning the instrument to its case after using, not resting the middle of the bellows on the knees, and keeping the room where it is stored around 50% humidity.  Not playing in cold weather or allowing the instrument to get cold is best. If it does get cold, letting it warm up before playing would be a good idea.  Also, don’t put any leather conditioners on the bellows.  

[Richard Mellish]

It has been claimed (by some who should know) that some "playing in" happens, with the instrument somehow performing better after a significant period of being played. What might be going on there? I would expect any change in the material properties of the reeds to affect the tuning, and that doesn't seem to happen. What else can change?

[Anglo-Irishman]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:55 PM, Richard Mellish said:

It has been claimed (by some who should know) that some "playing in" happens, with the instrument somehow performing better after a significant period of being played. What might be going on there? I would expect any change in the material properties of the reeds to affect the tuning, and that doesn't seem to happen. What else can change?

Playing-in, as indeed just playing, involves two individuals: the instrument and the player. You may be in a position to maintain that you play a certain concertina type pretty competently, but no two Anglos are exactly the same, nor are two Cranes, etc. One instrument may be louder, another softer. One may have stiff handstraps, another sloppy ones. The volume balance between LH and RH may be different in different concertinas, as may the relation between high and low notes. Bellows may be stiffer or more supple.

All this means that, when I've really optimised a piece on my Dallas/Crabb Anglo, exploiting all its strengths and avoiding all its weaknesses, I have to play the same piece through several times on my Stagi Anglo, to identify the drawbacks and advantages it offers - and these are different from those of the Crabb!

 

So yes, even with a "matured" instrument that has no more teething problems, if it's new to you (e.g. bought used, or borrowed from a friend, or picked upo again after a long period of disuse) "playing-in" will result in an improvement. The improvement will not be in the instrument itself, nor in the player, but rather in the rapport between them.

Cheers,

John

[Martin Essery]

I can understand the bellows and mechanisms becoming more free and easy to use over time, but what happens to the reeds? I have a Rochelle-2, which was 5 to 10 cents out of tune new, but is mostly in tune 6 months later. How did that happen? It is also a lot sweeter in tone and easier to speak. What is it that is changing in the metal of the reeds?

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I would imagine with concertina reeds being metal - then the temperature and general atmosphere could affect the note quality.  Remembering that metals contract and expand according to changes in environment. That's why you need to keep them cared for so they do not get a sharp cold or flu!😄

[Wally Carroll]

On 11/7/2022 at 10:55 AM, Richard Mellish said:

It has been claimed (by some who should know) that some "playing in" happens, with the instrument somehow performing better after a significant period of being played. What might be going on there? I would expect any change in the material properties of the reeds to affect the tuning, and that doesn't seem to happen. What else can change?

There is a belief among some luthiers and aficionados that the wood in an instrument changes (in a favorable manner) as a result of the sound waves impacting the instrument. Some new guitar owners even put their guitars on stands next to speakers playing loud  music to break them in quicker. Personally I wonder if much of the improvement is the owner getting used to the sound of the instrument, and as Anglo-Irishman has pointed out, adjusting to its specifics/quirks in a way that makes it play easier and more consistently as well. I don’t believe it’s possible to remember exactly how an instrument sounded in the past. Recordings over time would almost never be able to recreate an exact A/B comparison as well.  Our hearing ability changes as well over time, especially with a lot of concertina in your head. Maybe we’re all just slowly losing the ability to hear the harsher aspects of an instrument’s tone. Regardless, from a maker’s perspective, it’s a brilliant way to deflect a buyer’s disappointments to an imagined future where all will eventually be made right 😀

Edited November 9, 2022 by Wally Carroll
Typo

[d.elliott]

Martin, what happens to the reeds? I do not have the instrumentation to confirm this, but I have tuned probably several thousand reeds, and then played them prior to return to their owner. At rest the reed tongue has it's gap and shape, the reed is stable and held in that state by internal stresses within the metal of the reed tongue itself. There is a well-known and understood phenomenon called 'vibration stress relief'. When a bit of metal is flexed at a frequency (like a reed tongue) the Christal structure within the metal settles and stresses re-align themselves and can be reduced.  This will cause the reed tongue to deflect and change it's bent shape. Potentially this change may have a minuscule effect on pitch but can have more of an effect on responsiveness due to reed set. In my experience the result is usually for the better, or so I have always thought of it as some form of self-aligning process.   

[DickT]

Wally is sceptical of breaking in a guitar with speakers; I can say from experience that it really does work. I had a high end acoustic that was disappointingly rather dead on the middle strings, a few hours strapped to a speaker opened it up very well. In addition, my Grandson had not played his fiddle for a quite a while and when recording for a Zoom interview it was dull and unresponsive. By the time he had played two or three sets the tone had very noticeably changed for the better. Whether this effect occurs with concertinas is moot.

Quote

 

 

[Anglo-Irishman]

6 hours ago, DickT said:

my Grandson had not played his fiddle for a quite a while and when recording for a Zoom interview it was dull and unresponsive. By the time he had played two or three sets the tone had very noticeably changed for the better. Whether this effect occurs with concertinas is moot.

I think the fiddle is THE instrument which varies most, depending on the skill of the player. Violin intonation depends entirely on the precision of the player's left-hand fingering, and the tone is very dependent on the force exerted by the bowing hand. I used to play a bit of fiddle myself, and I remember well the excrutiating noises that I made when I picked it up again after a longer break. But, like with your grandson, it only took me a few tunes to get my fingers spot-on again.

With the concertina, the pitch is correct whoever plays it, and the tone is pretty constant. I suppose that's the difference between the two instruments: the concertina has read-made notes that you just have to select, whereas on the violin you have to make each selected note individually.

Cheers,

John

[Martin Essery]

14 hours ago, d.elliott said:

Martin, what happens to the reeds? I do not have the instrumentation to confirm this, but I have tuned probably several thousand reeds, and then played them prior to return to their owner. At rest the reed tongue has it's gap and shape, the reed is stable and held in that state by internal stresses within the metal of the reed tongue itself. There is a well-known and understood phenomenon called 'vibration stress relief'. When a bit of metal is flexed at a frequency (like a reed tongue) the Christal structure within the metal settles and stresses re-align themselves and can be reduced.  This will cause the reed tongue to deflect and change it's bent shape. Potentially this change may have a minuscule effect on pitch but can have more of an effect on responsiveness due to reed set. In my experience the result is usually for the better, or so I have always thought of it as some form of self-aligning process.   

Thank you, that makes sense, and explains why the notes I play more frequently have a different timbre to those played less frequently.

[Mike Franch]

On 11/9/2022 at 5:23 AM, Anglo-Irishman said:

 The improvement will not be in the instrument itself, nor in the player, but rather in the rapport between them.

 

The rapport between instrument and player. I love that concept!

[Geoff Wooff]

8 hours ago, Martin Essery said:

Thank you, that makes sense, and explains why the notes I play more frequently have a different timbre to those played less frequently.

Definately  agree  with  this.  I  find  some  notes  that are  not    used  often  just  don't  sing  like the  others.  In  fact  one of my  concertinas  does  not  react  well to  being  left in its  box, comes to  life  after  a weekend of  playing.  Not  that  it's  sound  is  ever  dull,  just  that  as  a high  output  instrument  one  can  notice the  difference  between its   happy  place and  its  sulky mood.

 

I  once had  two  of  Tommy  MacCarthy's  Jeffries  to  check  over,  the  one  he  played  all the  time  and  his  'spare'...   one  sang  and the  other was... ordinary .

 

Alistair Anderson  once  said  that  his  concertina  was not  happy  after  a two  week  lay off  for his  holiday.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Geoff Wooff

[Wally Carroll]

On 11/11/2022 at 6:57 AM, DickT said:

Wally is sceptical of breaking in a guitar with speakers; I can say from experience that it really does work. I had a high end acoustic that was disappointingly rather dead on the middle strings, a few hours strapped to a speaker opened it up very well. In addition, my Grandson had not played his fiddle for a quite a while and when recording for a Zoom interview it was dull and unresponsive. By the time he had played two or three sets the tone had very noticeably changed for the better. Whether this effect occurs with concertinas is moot.

 

Maybe your guitar improved or maybe your expectations were lowered after the initial listen and on a second listen it didn’t sound as bad as you remembered it.  I have had many experiences where I had an initial opinion about the tone of an instrument that was quite different on a later hearing. Some improved -some were disappointing.  Many of these occurred over the years at Noel Hill’s workshops where the same instruments would return each year. I’ve done a bit of sound engineering as well and often I can mix for hours thinking I’ve finally got the sound perfect only to hear it the next morning and be hugely disappointed.  It’s probably a mix of fatigue and adjusting to the sounds so that it starts to sound correct. My point is that it’s very difficult to say with any degree of certitude that an instrument (apart from how it is played) has tonally improved over time.  But I suppose, If you believe it has, there’s no harm in that.  From my perspective though, I don’t feel like I can tell people this is something that definitely happens, because I just don’t know. 

 

[DickT]

Wally, if you can tell one instrument from another then you can certainly tell if the tone has changed over time, whatever the cause. I have observed this effect with more than one guitar; I do sound for live gigs and for recording so am used to critically listening and analysing. As to the Grandson, yes his fluency, articulation and bowing greatly improved as he played in over a few sets but I still maintain that the instrument improved as it was played in (so does he).

 

At a local folk club gig a well-known singer and player turned up with four guitars, he explained this by saying that the instruments needed to be played to maintain their sound so he played them all. I am certain that instruments not regularly played loose tone which can be recovered with playing in.

 

I would endorse your idea of reviewing a mix at a later date when your ears have had a rest.

[Wally Carroll]

Certainly you can tell two instruments apart when you have them next to each other - I agree. The problem, as I see it, is that you no longer have the older version of your instrument to compare it to the current version. I don’t trust memory in this regard. Again, I’m not saying that an instrument can’t improve, I just haven’t been convinced that this does happen. In fact, isn’t it just as likely that it will get worse?  Why would only the pleasing aspects of the sound get emphasized the more it gets played?