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Playing it slowly.


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1 hour ago, Peter Laban said:

 

 

I surely hope you're not suggesting other music has a lesser sense of melody, or that your preferred music has a superior one. Various types of music have different characteristics and you can prefer one over the other but I don't think, in the realm of folk music (if you want to use the term), one type has a superior sense of melody over the next one.

 

It would be far from me to discuss 'national characteristics', perceived or otherwise but I do sometimes notice some people, English or otherwise, feel the urge to get a dig in towards everything that is different or foreign to them. I don't know why, to create a false sense of superiority perhaps?  I don't know if that's the case here, it can be ingrained in some, they don't even realise they're doing it,   but it is not one of the most endearing habits.

No, I was making a noticeable point that national character often shows itself in music.  I am certainly not intending to suggest superiority of one form over the other; after all a lot of generalised classical pieces have evolved from what we may now term folk tune, or melodies in form of such - eg; gavotte, country dances, musettes, orchestral suites often had movements developed along the line of earlier art forms. They all have their place; and long may it be so.

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48 minutes ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

No, I was making a noticeable point that national character often shows itself in music.  I am certainly not intending to suggest superiority of one form over the other; after all a lot of generalised classical pieces have evolved from what we may now term folk tune, or melodies in form of such - eg; gavotte, country dances, musettes, orchestral suites often had movements developed along the line of earlier art forms. They all have their place; and long may it be so.

 

Given the disparaging comments some folks have made about irish music on this thread what are you implying about the "national character" of irish people then? 

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I am certainly not intending to suggest superiority of one form over the other;

 

You probably didn't intend it, yet saying the English prefer music with a melody does somehow carry the message some other music under discussion lacks melody. Hence my reaction. Glad you clarified your point.

 

 

 

Edited by Peter Laban
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Folks,

 

I wish I hadn't stirred things up with my early quip now (It was meant to be light hearted).

 

Discussing the relative merits of different styles of music is fine; we all have our own opinions. But if we start insulting individuals, or whole nationalities, then we are getting into unpleasant territory.

 

Can I suggest we rein it back in a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Clive Thorne
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But if we start insulting individuals, or whole nationalities, then we are getting into unpleasant territory.

 

 

Well, we know who started it. The problem is, you don't even know you're doing it. Just  'aving a larf, eh?

 

But I was happy to draw a line under it several posts earlier.

 

I'll leave you with this one, wall to wall lovely music.

 

Edited by Peter Laban
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56 minutes ago, Peter Laban said:

 

 

Well, we know who started it. The problem is, you don't even know you're doing it. Just  'aving a larf, eh?

 

But I was happy to draw a line under it several posts earlier.

 

I'll leave you with this one, wall to wall lovely music.

 

Well I thought it was pretty obvious it was a joke, both the gross exaggeration (I.e. Triple) and the "Set up" and "punch line" format of how I laid it out.

 

Even if not taken as a joke it was still about the music, not about the people or nationality.

Someone else started making it about people/nationality.

 

 

Ah well, there you go.

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On 10/21/2022 at 6:10 PM, John Wild said:

I have been to a number of "Irish" music sessions at folk festivals in England!

 

On 10/21/2022 at 7:36 PM, lachenal74693 said:

Over a period of about 20 years, I have been to many "Irish" sessions at sailing/music festivals in

Brittany,

What's the fuss about? The gentlemen cited above made correct use of the inverted commas, making it clear that they are not talking about Irish music as such, but about something played in other countries that is loosely termed "Irish."

I had the delightful experience in these summer holidays of returning home to Ireland again after 25 years' absence. One of the highlights was an evening in a pub in Derry-Londonderry where I heard a good fiddler and a good tin-whistler accompanied by a very tasteful guitarist. The effect was very much the same as in the YouTube clips linked by Peter Laban - lightness without excessive tempo, and clear execution of every note. That was Irish music (without inverted commas!) as I know it.

 

It seems quite reasonable to me that people who prefer to speak in a foreign language (unless they're very good at it) will have a funny accent - which often comes from their pronouncing words the way they think a "native speaker" would pronounce them. Why should the same not apply to musical languages?

And then there's the nagging thought in the back of my mind: why do English and Froggies try to play Irish music anyway? Haven't they got music of their own? (Sorry if the question offends anyone - but I'd just like to know.)

Cheers,

John

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May I just here state to everyone that when I put this topic on about "playing it slowly".. I never expected such a carry-on! Indeed I only wanted to say how important slow playing also can be, and how ( to me) it is often overlooked.

I did NOT expect such friction to occur between people ( or to myself) as regards the topic.

Myself I have NO disrespect for IRISH music, or people! I have always tried to be respectful of others, wherever they come from.

I did not in any way in my posts here suggest any disrespect for the rich heritage of Ireland or the people; and the musical tradition.

I could detect as my topic went on that there was developing a mild light hearted tone in some responses ( by lots of us here on net )which have then been misunderstood as criticisms .. but I am sure that we do NOT want to fling insults about; the world is too full of conflict as it is.

So let us all instead fling about musical notes one to the other. and, furthermore, enjoy our cultural differences as a great treasure trove to celebrate; in both good humour, but with less misunderstanding?

🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝

 

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56 minutes ago, Anglo-Irishman said:

 

And then there's the nagging thought in the back of my mind: why do English and Froggies try to play Irish music anyway? Haven't they got music of their own? (Sorry if the question offends anyone - but I'd just like to know.)

Cheers,

John

Sorry John, but you can not be serious here. Do you imply that I, being German, are not allowed to be interested in the music of other cultures? Do you, as an Irishman living in Germany, feel unwelcome in German folk circles? Do you feel you should? I know this is not what you feel because you have always been open and interested in German folk music. Do you not grant that attachment and interest to other people?

 

Ken, can we close this thread? It is getting really way off musical issues and into very murky waters.

Edited by RAc
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On 10/19/2022 at 5:31 PM, Mikefule said:

Listen to fiddler, Martin Hayes, who is more than capable of saying fast but who can slow a tune down and wrong every drop it of it.

Just re-read this thread and noticed my unfortunate typo. Doubly unfortunate in view of the way the conversation developed! Martin Hayes can wring every drop out of a tune when he plays it slowly.  That's "wring" in a good way.

 

A certain amount of good natured banter about each other's "rival" traditions is all good fun,  but no one should be coming here for an argument.  Life's too short.

 

Back to the original post, I think we all agree that when music is played too fast, it can lose it's shape and musicality: sometimes,  everything seems to be sacrificed on the altar of raw foot-tapping speed. 

 

However,  a good enough musician can play fast or slow and still be musical.

Edited by Mikefule
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