Cohen Braithwaite-Kilcoyne Anglo Tutor

[gcoover]

Only slightly less if from shops, but please support local shops whenever possible!

 

Gary

[Yuxin Ding]

22 hours ago, gcoover said:

Some places on the internet say Amazon does ship to China, so maybe one could try entering a Chinese address?

 

Amazon international does ship goods to China but except for publications, because all the imported publications must go through 34 registered companies under China International Books Trading Corporation. However, it is fine to mail books to China personally, which is what I have been entrusting my friend to do for me. I think amazon.cn used to hold some imported books a couple of years ago (through the Books Trading Corp. of course) but they are now on the way to quitting the business and don't have any paperback books anymore.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Yuxin Ding

[Martin Essery]

Great book! I love the style and content, just right for me. So looking forwards to spending more time with it. I already know music and am glad it is not trying to teach that aspect, but people who do not may require other material to support this.
 

I have a query though. I have and enjoy other Rollston Press books, Harmonic style and Garden Delights, and they both lie flat, but the covers on Cohen's book are curling up a lot. I live in an old stone house which may not help, but why Is Cohen's book doing that and the others do not?

[Don Taylor]

On 12/21/2022 at 7:05 PM, Martin Essery said:

I have a query though. I have and enjoy other Rollston Press books, Harmonic style and Garden Delights, and they both lie flat, but the covers on Cohen's book are curling up a lot. I live in an old stone house which may not help, but why Is Cohen's book doing that and the others do not?

This probably one of the artifacts of perfect binding where multiple sets of several pages are glued together and as more sets of pages get added the glue binding gets thicker and thicker.  Gary's books are actually printed on demand by Amazon and all Amazon printed books use perfect binding.  There are other problems with 'perfect' binding, but that is another story.

 

In North America, Staples - an office supplies retailer - has a service that trims the glued binding off, punches a set of holes in the spine edges and inserts a spiral binding instead.  Then the book will lie flat and can even be folded back on itself to show just an individual page on a music stand.  Staples do not charge much for this service and they do it while you wait.  I expect that somebody does something similar in the UK.

 

I should add that if you are going get a book spiral bound then make sure that the text on the pages does not go right to the inside edge (gutter) of the spine because a small amount of paper is removed and then some holes punched near the edge.  I have several of Gary's books and they are all OK for this.  But, for example, children's picture books or books of artwork often have double page images that go right against the inside edge of the spine in order to make a nice layout.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Don Taylor

[Martin Essery]

7 minutes ago, Don Taylor said:

This probably one of the artifacts of perfect binding where multiple sets of several pages are glued together and as more sets of pages get added the glue binding gets thicker and thicker.  Gary's books are actually printed on demand by Amazon and all Amazon printed books use perfect binding.  There are other problems with 'perfect' binding, but that is another story.

 

In North America, Staples - an office supplies retailer - has a service that trims the glued binding off, punches a set of holes in the spine edges and inserts a spiral binding instead.  Then the book will lie flat and can even be folded back on itself to show just an individual page on a music stand.  Staples do not charge much for this service and they do it while you wait.  I expect that somebody does something similar in the UK.

Thank you, will have a look around.

 

[Roger Hare]

3 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

This probably one of the artifacts of perfect binding where multiple sets of several pages are glued together etc...

Everything Don says is absolutely spot on.

 

I used to supervise the day-to-day update/maintenace of a 500-600 page computer manual. The manual was made up of separate sections which were individually 'perfect' bound, but also punched for insertion in a large ring binder. Up to 20-30 pages is OK, but larger page numbers have a tendency to fall apart very quickly...

 

Properly executed, the spiral binding described by Don is the way to go - particularly for 'print-on-demand'.

 

Plastic 'comb' binding is another option...

Edited December 22, 2022 by lachenal74693

[Martin Essery]

6 hours ago, lachenal74693 said:

Everything Don says is absolutely spot on.

 

I used to supervise the day-to-day update/maintenace of a 500-600 page computer manual. The manual was made up of separate sections which were individually 'perfect' bound, but also punched for insertion in a large ring binder. Up to 20-30 pages is OK, but larger page numbers have a tendency to fall apart very quickly...

 

Properly executed, the spiral binding described by Don is the way to go - particularly for 'print-on-demand'.

 

Plastic 'comb' binding is another option...

What you and Don have said is useful, because it would be nice to get the book to lie flat when open, with a spiral binding, but I was having a second think this morn and we might be talking of something different.

Here is an image. The pages lie flat when closed (but want to close when open), but the covers curl up all on their own while my other Rollston books do not.

[Don Taylor]

3 hours ago, Martin Essery said:

Here is an image. The pages lie flat when closed (but want to close when open), but the covers curl up all on their own while my other Rollston books do not.

Hmmm... The only thing that I can think that might be going on here is that the dense (mostly black?) cover print and/or the gloss over the cover print has more surface tension than the inside faces of the cover print pages.  

 

You could try curling the cover pages in the opposite direction or, if it really bugs you, gluing some thin cardstock on the insides of the cover pages.

 

Has anyone else experienced this problem with this book?

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Try pressing the book under other heavy hardback books, which I am sure you will have around, and leave for a day or so. If, like me, you are in property where there is more damp in the air then it can cause paper to curl. It can sometimes cause 'foxing' on some papers too!

I have loads of books and very few pages curl, whether paperback or otherwise, but I always think that hardback cover is best choice, as it naturally forces the paper to align and presses it between.

I suppose, at end of the day, you could carefully remove loose pages, and put them in clear pockets in lever arch files; most of my transcriptions are in lever arch files, and they can easily be referenced. If the pages do get damaged.. you just get a new page sleeve. Buy thicker weight clear sleeves is best.

That is assuming it is A4 size pages.

 

[DDF]

Looks like damp air is making the inside of the cover expand at a greater rate than the outside which is probably film coated.

[Steve Schulteis]

No such problems with my copy. I agree with Simon - leave it under some heavy books and it will probably sort itself out.

[gcoover]

I shall have to have a word with my printer Mr. Bezos! Sorry to hear the covers are curling, not sure why it would affect one book versus any others, but as Don says it's definitely a problem with this type of binding. It's certainly a misnomer to call it "perfect" when it is far from it, but it's the only type offered by Amazon.

 

Cutting the spines and adding coils will make it lie flat but probably not help the curling. My guess is the paper side is expanding due to higher moisture absorption but not sure what to do about it. If put nearer to a heater does it flatten back?

 

Or....maybe it's just the spirit of Cohen telling you to keep the book open and practice?!?

 

Gary

 

[Martin Essery]

With all your input, now solved. This is a damp old stone house, and the book arrived in the middle of that cold spell when my heating had failed. Moisture got to the permeable paper side of the cover, not through the glossy side, causing the curling. As was suggested, I rolled it quite tight in the opposite direction, flattened it out and is now fine. The other books had arrived in warmer times so had time to acclimatise. I was curious as to why, but now I understand 🙂

So, not a fault with printing, just the conditions it arrived in.

[Ken_Coles]

It's amazing, the variety of problems folks help solve around here.

 

Ken

[Don Taylor]

[David Barnert]

6 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

 

Oh, Don. I’m so sorry you posted this! Things were going so well in this thread...

 

Yes, it nicely demonstrates how flat a book can lie if it is spiral bound (I assume that’s why you posted it). I just wish it were a little more out-of-focus, so I couldn’t make out what’s printed on the page.

 

I don’t play Anglo, so I have no reason to have ever looked inside one of Gary’s books before. But now Pandora’s box is opened, and I must let out the demon that is the part of me that can’t stand to see imperfection where perfection could be so close at hand.

 

From all I’ve gathered these many years I have been participating in this forum, it seems Gary Coover is a pleasant, intelligent guy, and he’s certainly done a great deal to help the Anglo-playing community and concertina players in general. I certainly don’t mean any personal criticism. But...

 

If you’re going to set “Silent Night” in 3/4 time, start it with a dotted quarter note, not a dotted 8th! Or if you’re going to start with a dotted 8th, put it in 3/8. Either option would have 3-beat measures half as long as what’s notated here. The way this is notated (despite the 3/4 time signature) is really in 6/8, with strong beats on “Si-“ and “night” (3/4 would put them on “Si-,” “-lent,” and the middle third of “night.” And the way measures 5, 7, 9 and 11 are beamed also works against the natural phrasing of the tune, suggesting accents where they don’t belong. The note lengths are correct: a computer would play it correctly (if lifelessly). Any human trying to play it and put life into it (particularly if they didn’t know the tune) would be confounded by the time signature and the beaming.

 

I’m sorry, Gary. And Don. I really am. That’s what I get for reading concertina.net at 3:00 in the morning. At any more reasonable time of day I’d probably trash this before sending it. But...

[gcoover]

Good catch, David, in spite of the drift (sorry, Cohen)! Just goes to show what can happen when one knows a tune too well to pay attention to pesky details. Gruber wrote "Stille Nacht" in 6/8, so this long-lived typo has now been excised almost ten years later and all future books will be correct - a Christmas concertina miracle!

 

Gary

[Don Taylor]

In my defense I picked Gary's SIlent Night arrangement to photgraph because he had already very recently posted the same page himself in another topic:

I did not want to accidentally commit copyright infringement so I opened Gary's 'Christmas Concertina' book at Silent Night.  I should echo that this arrangement was not written by Cohen and is not in his Anglo Tutor book

 

Randy's version (the Matueswitch version) is in 6/8 time.