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Jeffries or Wheatstone for classical music?


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I am currently playing a 30 button Wheatstone Anglo, attempting classical music and finding challenges, especially with chords, so am contemplating saving up for 40 buttons. Does Wheatstone or Jeffries have any advantages for playing classical music? Just to be clear, I am talking of he different reed layouts (not vintage instruments), and whether one falls more easily under the fingers than the other.

Edited by Martin Essery
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I have limited experience with other instruments but I do have both a Jeffries duet and a Wheatstone JD.  I play a wide range of music at I would say an intermediate/improving level.  I'm playing some classical and I find the Wheatstone to be reedier and preferable to the Jeffries which has a much clearer sound.  I think it would depend on the piece though.  Think oboe as opposed to French horn.  In addition the Wheatstone is chromatic down to the cello Bb which is advantageous, while the Jeffries skips down to low G.  I know you're talking anglos but I hope this helps.

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Not an Anglo player. 
but it may make the most sense to determine what you want to play, primarily and gear your choice to that..


if you intend to focus on Bach, and learn the violin, cello, or organ. That may drive you in one direction, or three. While if you intend to focus on Mozart, Tchaikovsky and do flute oboe and bassoon that may likely drive a very different instrument. 
 

I am sure you can get an Anglo to do a reasonable job at anything with enough practice, mapping out push pull and key choices on the front end.
 

 I think it would be easier, long term to look at a chromatic instrument that has the same notes on the push and pull and just read the score and play.

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I am an anglo player, and although it's not my main interest I do occasionally play classical music on both 30-button and 40-button Wheatstone-layout instruments. One major advantage of the 30-button Wheatstone layout is that it's fully chromatic from A3 to G6, i.e. almost the exact same range as a treble English. (And if you include the G3, it covers the same range save for the low G#, not to mention the extras below and above.) The chromatic range of 30-button Jeffries instruments, near as I can tell, tops out around D6 or E6. Those extra high notes on the Wheatstone, while not often used in trad music, can be really useful in classical if you're playing from violin or flute parts. Another possible advantage is that the Wheatstone has more duplicated (in the opposite direction) Gs and As, and I find those notes really useful as pivot points to keep my fingers from getting tied up in knots. They're also more likely to be needed in the chords that come up in the friendlier keys, say three flats to three sharps.

 

What the 40-button layout gets you, it's often pointed out, is more choice, both for chords (full or partial) but also for melodic phrasing -- and if you're really good at it, which I'm not, counterpoint. In the case of my 40-button instrument, it includes the Jeffries-style "reversed" left hand D#/C# button adjacent to the C#/D#, but because it's on the added column (relative to 30-button) it doesn't break the Wheatstone pattern with those Gs and As I mentioned, meaning I get the best of both worlds.

 

Finally I'll say that I got my 40-button instrument through a combination of luck and being willing to take a chance on a lesser-known entity, in my case on a South African instrument made by Koot Brits. Because 40-button anglos are relatively more plentiful there, and because they fall outside the range of coveted names that command top dollar in the global market, they can be found for only a little more than the cost of a decent 30-button accordion-reeded instrument... or at least they could when I got mine. I've never regretted the choice, and it's still my "desert island" instrument.

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8 hours ago, Aaron Bittel said:

I am an anglo player, and although it's not my main interest I do occasionally play classical music on both 30-button and 40-button Wheatstone-layout instruments. One major advantage of the 30-button Wheatstone layout is that it's fully chromatic from A3 to G6, i.e. almost the exact same range as a treble English. (And if you include the G3, it covers the same range save for the low G#, not to mention the extras below and above.) The chromatic range of 30-button Jeffries instruments, near as I can tell, tops out around D6 or E6. Those extra high notes on the Wheatstone, while not often used in trad music, can be really useful in classical if you're playing from violin or flute parts. Another possible advantage is that the Wheatstone has more duplicated (in the opposite direction) Gs and As, and I find those notes really useful as pivot points to keep my fingers from getting tied up in knots. They're also more likely to be needed in the chords that come up in the friendlier keys, say three flats to three sharps.

 

What the 40-button layout gets you, it's often pointed out, is more choice, both for chords (full or partial) but also for melodic phrasing -- and if you're really good at it, which I'm not, counterpoint. In the case of my 40-button instrument, it includes the Jeffries-style "reversed" left hand D#/C# button adjacent to the C#/D#, but because it's on the added column (relative to 30-button) it doesn't break the Wheatstone pattern with those Gs and As I mentioned, meaning I get the best of both worlds.

 

Finally I'll say that I got my 40-button instrument through a combination of luck and being willing to take a chance on a lesser-known entity, in my case on a South African instrument made by Koot Brits. Because 40-button anglos are relatively more plentiful there, and because they fall outside the range of coveted names that command top dollar in the global market, they can be found for only a little more than the cost of a decent 30-button accordion-reeded instrument... or at least they could when I got mine. I've never regretted the choice, and it's still my "desert island" instrument.

Thank you for your response ❤️ I think you just confirmed for me that the 40 Wheatstone arrangement is going to be best for me. I can see that the Jeffries is good for Irish, which is not really my thing, and that the Wheatstone has a few extra high notes which will be useful for violin, flute and cello music.

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8 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

Mike Acott has a very nice Maccann for sale on this forum, maybe worth a trip to Ipswich?

 

Unfortunately, I am addicted to the Anglo! No one said concertinists have to be sane 😄 I have a grand concert harp if I want a nice orderly instrument. I have played many instruments, but learned mostly by the book. Father Christmas brought me a 20 button concertina (the cheapest you can get) when I was far too young, but he forgot to bring any instructions, so I had to find the music for myself, and that inner intuition has stayed with me to this day.

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13 hours ago, Martin Essery said:

I think you just confirmed for me that the 40 Wheatstone arrangement is going to be best for me.

Glad all that was helpful! I'll just add one thing -- you're probably already aware of this but just in case: I've heard there tends to be more layout variation among >30 button anglos, although my own seems to follow the "standard" Wheatstone 40 layout except for that Jeffries-style D#/C#.

 

2 hours ago, Martin Essery said:

No one said concertinists have to be sane 😄

Amen! Although I'd say it's more rational to attempt to play chromatic music on a mostly-chromatic instrument, than to spend big bucks on one only to insist that it only works in two keys. 🤷‍♂️ But that's just me. I figure if I paid for the buttons, I'm going to use them.

 

Just don't go saying that a 30+ anglo is playable in any key, or that it's even possible to play atonal music on one. Folks around here might lose their minds.

Edited by Aaron Bittel
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10 hours ago, Aaron Bittel said:

Glad all that was helpful! I'll just add one thing -- you're probably already aware of this but just in case: I've heard there tends to be more layout variation among >30 button anglos, although my own seems to follow the "standard" Wheatstone 40 layout except for that Jeffries-style D#/C#.

 

Amen! Although I'd say it's more rational to attempt to play chromatic music on a mostly-chromatic instrument, than to spend big bucks on one only to insist that it only works in two keys. 🤷‍♂️ But that's just me. I figure if I paid for the buttons, I'm going to use them.

 

Just don't go saying that a 30+ anglo is playable in any key, or that it's even possible to play atonal music on one. Folks around here might lose their minds.

Lol, I am getting good at transposing 😄 I have been playing through the Bach cello suites, and the single line tunes are all playable, although some can be awkward, but I will need a 40 button to make some of the chords work. I currently am looking at the Stagi W-40MS as a cheap-ish first option, to see what is possible, which is wheatstone type layout.

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Do you have a copy of this book by Adrian Brown? If not, you should.

 

The book contains arrangements for harmonic style concertina playing for both Wheatstone and Jeffries layouts. 
 

Some reading materials by Adrian are contained in this book which would be a very good guide to your inquiry.

 

Cheers!

 

Totani

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1732612102/

 

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Adrian's playing and arrangements are incredible, definitely a model for what can be done with classical music on an anglo. But one thing about that book to be aware of, which is not apparent from the Amazon preview, is that only the melodies are transcribed in standard notation. Adrian's realizations -- the harmonies, inner voices, etc. -- are transcribed in Coover system tablature only. I can't fathom why it was done this way, since it's not exactly beginner-level material, and the fact that the tablature is for 30/31-button layouts means you can't even really glean anything about the phrasings or fingerings Adrian uses. To play it (assuming you're using a >30-button instrument and want to make use of the extra buttons) you'd first have to learn to read Coover notation, transcribe it into standard notation, and then from there work out your own arrangements on your own instrument. Although that might be a valuable exercise in itself...

 

(As an aside, I wonder if Gary would ever consider publishing a new edition with the realizations in standard notation, alongside the tab. I'd buy that in an instant, and I'd be excited to work my way through it.)

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One other thing, going back to the original question: I noticed that in the introduction to the book, Adrian says he plays the Jeffries 38-button system. Not to muddy the waters for you, but maybe that's a point (or ten) in favor of Jeffries?

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“Classical Music” covers a huge variety of genres and styles and it would be impossible to find an instrument to play everything. I myself have mostly concentrated on renaissance polyphony with a few excursions into baroque music. Vocal polyphony 1500-1620 works wonderfully on most polyphonic instruments and I think the Anglo concertina does it well too. The small range of the voices and only two signatures (with a flat, or without) means you can usually find a way of fitting it into the Anglo’s limitations. With later music, the problem is always where the bass is going, since the broken, diatonic lowest octave of the 30 button Anglo means you need to sort out what you are missing first, then transpose to a pitch where you have the correct notes. If you can find a way of getting a low d, a tone above the lowest note, it will help enormously in this regard. Having more than 30 buttons means you can play smooth melodies (legato) and not be forced by the system to change bellows direction, while at the same time playing bouncy melodies when you want to.

 

Adrian 

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On 8/16/2022 at 5:29 AM, Aaron Bittel said:

Adrian's playing and arrangements are incredible, definitely a model for what can be done with classical music on an anglo. But one thing about that book to be aware of, which is not apparent from the Amazon preview, is that only the melodies are transcribed in standard notation. Adrian's realizations -- the harmonies, inner voices, etc. -- are transcribed in Coover system tablature only. I can't fathom why it was done this way, since it's not exactly beginner-level material, and the fact that the tablature is for 30/31-button layouts means you can't even really glean anything about the phrasings or fingerings Adrian uses. To play it (assuming you're using a >30-button instrument and want to make use of the extra buttons) you'd first have to learn to read Coover notation, transcribe it into standard notation, and then from there work out your own arrangements on your own instrument. Although that might be a valuable exercise in itself...

 

(As an aside, I wonder if Gary would ever consider publishing a new edition with the realizations in standard notation, alongside the tab. I'd buy that in an instant, and I'd be excited to work my way through it.)

 

Thanks for your kind comments Aaron. The reason we did it this way was to fit with all of Gary’s other books. Probably more than half of the tunes have a simple om-pa accompaniment anyway, so it doesn’t necessarily lend itself to a more rigid staff notation - the tablature and chord symbols show where the harmony is leading. I would be up to editing a staff notation version, with no button or bellows markings - perhaps it might be interesting for duet players too? The problem is which clefs do you want? I would prefer to transpose the notation down an octave and use standard bass and treble clefs, but in my experience, a lot of concertina players shy away from the bass clef? Certainly I think two clefs would be needed to show more or less what is played on the left and right hands and to keep it clear. I would also need to be sure there was a potential interest of more than just one person 🙂


Adrian

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On 8/16/2022 at 5:42 AM, Aaron Bittel said:

One other thing, going back to the original question: I noticed that in the introduction to the book, Adrian says he plays the Jeffries 38-button system. Not to muddy the waters for you, but maybe that's a point (or ten) in favor of Jeffries?

A few plus and minus points to consider:
 
Jeffries 39:
+ different keys (I have the same system in CG, BbF, GD, FC and baritone CG. This becomes important if you want to sing too, since the bass limitations will force you into a certain key, which then might not be suitable for your voice type. Having differently pitched Anglos allows you to play with the same fingering patterns and produce a different pitch.

 

- They tend to be dearer concertinas, as most of them are made by Jeffries and command a premium price.
- The ’standard’ button layout goes to a on the RH side, but not a g.

 

Wheatstone/Jones 40
+ A lot more of them around, and they are generally cheaper.
+The RH side goes down to a g, so you can keep more of the melody on the RH

 

- I’ve not seen many in other keys, although I’m sure they exist.
- not sure there is the important RH f reversal in the standard pattern?

 

In the end, whichever system you choose, you’ll be able to play a much larger repertoire than on a 30 button.


Adrian

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On 8/17/2022 at 9:19 AM, adrian brown said:

The reason we did it this way was to fit with all of Gary’s other books. Probably more than half of the tunes have a simple om-pa accompaniment anyway, so it doesn’t necessarily lend itself to a more rigid staff notation - the tablature and chord symbols show where the harmony is leading.

Thanks for explaining that, Adrian. Of course it makes sense that folks would expect it to be laid out like Gary's other books. I was looking at it with the assumption that anyone who would be interested in learning Renaissance polyphony would already be pretty comfortable with staff notation, but not necessarily tablature, which is why I was surprised. But maybe I made the mistake of extrapolating my own situation out to an imaginary audience. It sounds like I was also imagining more complexity than there necessarily is. I'm somewhat familiar with Renaissance polyphony as a singer, much less as an instrumentalist (even though I'm primarily an instrumentalist.)

 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:19 AM, adrian brown said:

The problem is which clefs do you want?

Although I'd be comfortable with RH on treble clef and LH on bass, what makes most sense in my mind is two treble clefs, both notated at sounding pitch. That's what's in Gary's new edition of Alan Lochhead's Summer Symphony, for example, and it's how I tend to notate things myself. But I realize that may not work for everyone. Flipping through a couple of the recent Concertina World music supplements for duet, they all seem to be notated with the LH on the bass clef. I'd be happy either way!

 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:19 AM, adrian brown said:

I would also need to be sure there was a potential interest of more than just one person 🙂

Of course! I realize it would be a lot of work. Hopefully some other folks will chime in so that it's not just me and my imaginary audience clamoring away. :)

 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:20 AM, adrian brown said:

Wheatstone/Jones 40
[...]
- not sure there is the important RH f reversal in the standard pattern?

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's part of the standard pattern (middle row, adjacent to C/B).

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