So-called anglo concertinas without English style action, are they anglos ?

[hjcjones]

Usage changes.  A century or more ago it may have been useful to distinguish between Anglo/Anglo-German and German concertinas.  These days, when nearly all surviving vintage and modern concertinas are Anglos, and hardly any German concertinas have survived, the term is usually understood to refer to the keyboard layout and push-pull action, rather than the internal mechanism.  

 

I accept that some might want to make the distinction when referring to an actual German concertina or a modern reproduction, but most observers would probably regard it as an anglo until the difference was explained to them. 

 

 

[Clive Thorne]

7 hours ago, Richard Mellish said:

The name "Anglo" (originally "Anglo-German, subsequently shortened) came about because one variety of concertina combined the German arrangement of the notes (or an expansion thereof) with the English form of construction. If the form of construction is purely German, with nothing "Anglo" about it (as with the German-made one that I started on many many years ago) then that instrument has no claim to be called "Anglo". Give the Germans their due.

Which begs the question of what would you call an " English" concertina built in the old German style of contruction? "English-German"?

[Takayuki YAGI]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:14 PM, LazyNetter said:

Because the construction with assembling all the metal levers onto one metal unit has more similarity to the left-hand side of accordions, and I assume this level of concertina was by-products of accordion manufacturers at the very beginning, but not grabbed from German concertinas' action.

I did not have this perspective. Thank you. I had assumed that was Dr. Bastari's original development.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I understood that at about the period of the great wars the term German concertina became less desirable; and assume also that Anglo became more favoured from then onwards.

Edited August 4 by SIMON GABRIELOW

[Richard Mellish]

9 hours ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

I understood that at about the period of the great wars the term German concertina became less desirable; and assume also that Anglo became more favoured from then onwards.

I don't think there's any question about "Anglo-German" changing to "Anglo". The question that we've been discussing is how widely "Anglo" can be applied. On that, there are two opinions: that any instrument with a certain arrangement of the notes qualifies; or that the term should be restricted to those that have at least some features of the traditional English internal construction.

 

Shall we agree to differ on that?

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Of course we can agree to differ; that's what makes conversation and debate worthwhile.

[Anglo-Irishman]

On 8/2/2022 at 7:18 AM, Richard Mellish said:

Logically they should not be called Anglos. Those that were made in Germany should be called German concertinas.

As a matter of fact, hexagonal concertinas with wooden ends, large buttons arranged in two Richter rows, and parallel levers leading to parallel reeds (often two reeds per note) are referred to here in Germany as "deutsche Concertinas"  - which translates as "German concertinas." The instruments that are referred to in English as Large German Concertinas are referred to in German by the names appropriate to their version of the Richter layout: Chemnitzer or Carlsfelder Konzertinas, or Bandoneons. (They all have the central 20 buttons - two Richter scales a fifth apart - but different "accidentals.")

BTW, the name of Jürgen Suttner has been mentioned. This gentleman, as a person, is indeed a German citizen, and his workshop is in Germany, but as a craftsman he works in the British/Irish tradition of concertina building. His products are therefore IMO correctly designated as English and Anglo concertinas.

Cheers,

John

[Richard Mellish]

Yes of course I agree that Jürgen Suttner's concertinas do qualify and it would be confusing to call them German concertinas.

[Clive Thorne]

4 hours ago, Richard Mellish said:

Yes of course I agree that Jürgen Suttner's concertinas do qualify and it would be confusing to call them German concertinas.

So that would be a German Anglo rather than an Anglo-German.

 

I think my head is about to explode.

[wunks]

 

26 minutes ago, Clive Thorne said:

So that would be a German Anglo rather than an Anglo-German.

 

I think my head is about to explode.

Wait for  it.  Someone is sure to throw Italian made boxes into the mix.....oops...😏