electronic practice concertina

[Steve Schulteis]

3 minutes ago, Don Taylor said:

Just to be clear, does that mean that you can output midi over both a 5-pin midi connector and the USB port?

 

Are you asking if the USB output could be connected to a device with the 5 pin DIN connector? If so, the answer is no.

 

If you're asking about having a second output that drives the old school serial midi connector, I didn't do that, but there's no reason you couldn't as long as you have another I/O pin to allocate for it.

[Don Taylor]

2 minutes ago, Steve Schulteis said:

 

Are you asking if the USB output could be connected to a device with the 5 pin DIN connector? If so, the answer is no.

 

If you're asking about having a second output that drives the old school serial midi connector, I didn't do that, but there's no reason you couldn't as long as you have another I/O pin to allocate for it.

Sorry Steve, I was trying to ask Howard that question but I think I was confused.  I need a nap!

[Howard Mitchell]

Steve’s code (and hardware) produces midi over usb. My code and hardware produces midi on a 5 pin din.  There’s no reason you could not do both as long as the arduino you use has native usb ( not a nano) and you have a spare I/O pin for the serial midi..

[Michael Eskin]

Once you start considering moving away from mechanical switches and going to touch-based capacitive switches, you might want to just consider using an iPad, which is how I implemented my various iPad-based MIDI concertina controllers.

These all work with whatever CoreMIDI sound module you want to use on the device, for example, the Roland Sound Canvas or my own Celtic Sounds apps.  Or if you want to use external MIDI sound modules or interface to a desktop-based MIDI program, connect the iPad to a hardware MIDI interface:

English:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/miditinaxl-control-surface/id388856713?uo=4&ls=1&mt=8

Anglo:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/midiangloxl-control-surface/id579999924?uo=4&ls=1&mt=8

Hayden:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/midihayden-control-surface/id375667582?uo=4&ls=1&mt=8

Example videos:
 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by eskin

[David Barnert]

3 hours ago, eskin said:

Once you start considering moving away from mechanical switches and going to touch-based capacitive switches, you might want to just consider using an iPad, which is how I implemented my various iPad-based MIDI concertina controllers.

 

Michael, have you  found a way to provide tactile feedback so you don’t have to keep looking at your fingers to make sure they are over the images of the keys? An overlay of Saran wrap with drops of hardened glue where the key images are doesn’t work (I tried it). Is there anything that does?

[Michael Eskin]

22 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

 

Michael, have you  found a way to provide tactile feedback so you don’t have to keep looking at your fingers to make sure they are over the images of the keys? An overlay of Saran wrap with drops of hardened glue where the key images are doesn’t work (I tried it). Is there anything that does?

Unfortunately there is no haptic feedback available on iPad, but I have seen people make touch-screen compatible screen-protector overlays where they punch out holes that correspond to the button positions on the screen, so you can feel the edges of the buttons. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by eskin

[David Barnert]

6 minutes ago, eskin said:

Unfortunately there is no haptic feedback available on iPad, but I have seen people make touch-screen compatible screen-protector overlays where they punch out holes that correspond to the button positions on the screen, so you can feel the edges of the buttons. 

 

Thanks. I can see how that could certainly work, but I don’t think I’m going to look for a hole puncher that can punch dozens of holes with precision several inches from the edge of a semi-rigid sheet.

[Michael Eskin]

9 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

 

Thanks. I can see how that could certainly work, but I don’t think I’m going to look for a hole puncher that can punch dozens of holes with precision several inches from the edge of a semi-rigid sheet.

I'm sure one could make a simple inexpensive punch out of a piece of sharpened copper tubing or similar if they were sufficiently motivated. The protector sheets I've seen people use aren't glass, they are very thin plastic of some kind that still work with the capacitive touch screen on the iPad. They are often used to give the Apple Pencil more of a pen-on-paper feel.

Edited August 22, 2022 by eskin

[pentaprism]

Make a mask....

 

The mask is 2 parts:

- A clear acetate sheet. Something like this.
- An adhesive foam sheet. Something like this.

I made a photocopy of the app on the iPad screen, attached the photocopy to the foam sheet (watch out for the orientation and the side with adhesive), then punched away with a hollow punch tool like this. Then I attached the punched foam sheet to the acetate sheet.

I glued velcro dots at the corners of the iPad and of the mask to keep the mask from moving around.
 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by pentaprism

[Michael Eskin]

38 minutes ago, pentaprism said:

Make a mask....

 

The mask is 2 parts:

- A clear acetate sheet. Something like this.
- An adhesive foam sheet. Something like this.

I made a photocopy of the app on the iPad screen, attached the photocopy to the foam sheet (watch out for the orientation and the side with adhesive), then punched away with a hollow punch tool like this. Then I attached the punched foam sheet to the acetate sheet.

I glued velcro dots at the corners of the iPad and of the mask to keep the mask from moving around.
 

 

 

That is so cool! 

[David Barnert]

4 hours ago, pentaprism said:

Make a mask....

You win!

[RAc]

Even so, this is not the same haptic feeling, and, what is worse, the keyboard-like position of your hands is totally different. I have a crane emulation software on my tablet, and I use it frequently, but to get a feeling remotely related to concertina playing, I need my hands to be parallel to my body center line, not perpendicular. The only way to accomplish that with a tablet would be to use two tablets and arrange them like the end plates of a real tina.

Edited August 22, 2022 by RAc

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I would say, at the end of the day, just stick to a real concertina! At least they won't need recharging, or have software problems! ( Only the player or musician can get these!)...

😃😄😄😁

[David Colpitts]

Regarding iPad tactile feedback:  My quest for such was (at least almost) satisfied with sheets of self-adhering overlay plastic with regular grid pattern of raised dots.  Not the same as the actually responsive interfaces (real keys/buttons) but cheap and simple, with quite a boost in "haptism." It is marketed for kids, people with learning differences, and any like me who want some sort of feedback for positioning on the slippery glass.

 

I think the name is "TacSheets" and I will try to remember to pack my extra sheet for you to try, David B., at the Squeeze-In.  I use it on my very old 30-pin iPad, which while it will run most of the apps I use to mess with music, won't take the external controllers, like Striso, QuNexus, XKey which are providing so much alternative fun.  And, Simon, while I agree completely with worthiness of "real" instruments, I must say that electronica and acoustica now represent parallel pathways for me, and I  can say without reservation that  I want both!

[pentaprism]

Quote

5 hours ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

…. at the end of the day, just stick to a real concertina! 

 

That’s a given.

 

Even something like Roland V-accordions (I have a few) can not replace their acoustic counterparts. But if someone sold a V-concertina that’s similar to the V-accordions, I’d be the first in line.

 

The best concertina (replace “concertina” with anything you’d like) is the one you have at hand.

 

The iPad concertina and iPad accordion have kept me busy many times when the “real thing” was not available.

Edited August 22, 2022 by pentaprism

[Michael Eskin]

18 minutes ago, pentaprism said:

That’s a given.

 

Even something like Roland V-accordions (I have a few) can not replace their acoustic counterparts. But if someone sold a V-concertina that’s similar to the V-accordions, I’d be the first in line.

 

The best concertina (replace “concertina” with anything you’d like) is the one you have at hand.

 

The iPad concertina and iPad accordion have kept me busy many times when the “real thing” was not available.

In the 10+ years now I've been doing these apps, I've heard every imaginable criticism of the apps, including that I was literally going to h*ll for making them.  🙂 

For every criticism of the apps I received over the years, I've also seen amazing things done with them. In some cases, the apps make it possible for players who, because of physical limitations, were able to play the iPad where a real instrument would be problematic.  They also make it possible for players to practice anywhere without concern for disturbing others.

Are they perfect, absolutely not.  Can they be useful, absolutely.

[pentaprism]

Quote

I've heard every imaginable criticism of the apps, including that I was literally going to h*ll for making them.

"No good deed goes unpunished," Michael.

[RAc]

btw, during my research for a compact solution, I have come across the following 

 

 

Pianobox mini II - Miditech

 

There is also a chinese clone of it called midiplus miniengine usb.

 

If this works as expected, all I would need for travel is that Gizmo and the midi tina; since the interface has a built in accu, it could even work without external power (the tina will be powered of the supply while charged).

Edited November 12 by RAc